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Thread: AR-15 6x45 Tactical - A lion round in a cat size package

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Default AR-15 6x45 Tactical - A lion round in a cat size package

    The Goal of this thread is to maintain folks in this great forum updated of a new AR project, The AimArms AR 6x45. This is intended for people interested on following up on progress with questions, suggestions and collaborative opinions.
    This is not to compare, degrade or criticize this or other AR variants or systems. A simple case of dedication to some of the AR variants and share the objectives and results with you. I find this interesting for everyone who likes a super accurate system. At least that is my case.

    Caliber: .243
    Bullets: Any .243 up to 105gr. (plenty in stock)
    Parent case: .223 Remington / 5.56x45 NATO. (plenty in stock. We will be using custom dies)
    Barrel: AR LW50 - LotharWalter caliber .243x45 - 20" 1:9 twist of rate.
    Billet: Sunju Industrial
    Trigger: RRA 2 Stage National Match

    Technology Goals:

    Phase One:
    1-Prove and test Functions with new bore.
    2-Improved Ballistics - Include summary about hunting and tactical applications

    Phase Two (long term):
    3-Custom long stroke Piston - Enhancement with automated regulator with suppressed and cancel mode.
    4-Eliminate The need for buffer tube.
    5-Improve AR Charging handle.


    Functional Goals:
    1-Accuracy.
    2-Terminal effectiveness.
    3-Maintenance and reliability.
    4-Versatility.
    5-Battle Operations Advantages and Disadvantages

    Planning diverse tests in most common scenarios. We will start from the bench and then move forward from there.

    The ballistics goals are simple. We aim for a little range and terminal improvement of an already time tested, battle proved and extremely efficient round, the 5.56.
    The numbers are confirmed confirmed between a 18% to 30% improvement over s.223 terminal ballistics. The renewed interest comes from several sides:

    A) extremely accurate. It won world matches back in the 70's.
    B) low cost and versatility with that increased in terminal ballistics.
    C) Easy to implement.

    the 6mmx45 (.243x45) or also known as the 6mmx.223Remington. I start with the baseline but we do not discard improvements over the case. I am also looking into serious powder work down the road. We start with a 20 inch barrel that we might be chopping off at some point but we have other things to resolve first.

    We are not trying to reinvent anything. We are continuing where others left.

    Everything starts and ends with the bullet, hopefully a good one.

    The reason for the .243 caliber is very simple. The biggest assortment and some of the best bullet selections were considered in the following calibers:

    A) .224
    B) .243
    C) .6mm
    D) .308

    .224 bullets are already very popular in several casing, obviously including the current .223 REM and 5.56NATO standard M-16 & AR-15. 1:8 twist of rate heavy barrels do an excellent job stabilizing the 75, 77 and 80gr bullets. 1:7 is desired for 80 and above but I found that at 80gr you are pretty much maxed out in terms of maximizing performance out of the .223 REM casing.

    .308 bullets have a huge selections but no good ones can be shot out of the AR with a substantial gain. We might have a good round for short to mid range but then new mags, new bolts maybe carries, the whole nine yards. The WSSM variants that initially seemed a good idea are dedicated systems (hunting), suffer in accuracy and good high BC bullets cannot be run due to the max COAL. Great systems for what it is but this is not a research for the next great AR caliber. Rather is an exercise to improve on what we already know.

    .25 and 6.8 were discarded due to bad bullet assortment and low ballistic performance. Sometimes the limitations, like also in the .308 is not the bullet assortment but OAL in the AR-15 magazine.
    6.5 was also considered due to some extremely good bullets but for that we already have a nice grendel. Not MBR bound but a great special purpose system.

    So, we are left with possibly the one of the best assortment of bullets in the .243 caliber. We can find good bullets in this section with .243 bullet of boat tail spitzer shape in 85gr that have a pretty good ballistic coefficient to make an excellent bullet at longer ranges than the current .224 ones and with the higher sectional density for a much better penetration.

    These are some quick visual comparison of some good bullets many with high BCs. Hopefully the pictures will be ok to appreciate some of the details....

    From left to right... In .224 caliber:
    55gr GI, 62gr GI penetrator, 69gr SMK, 70gr Barnes TSX, 75gr Hornady Match, 77gr Berger VLD, then one match hand load with Federal Case and a Sierra MK 69gr. Now in the middle next to the .223 round we have a .243x45 handload with a 87gr. Hornday SP. and then continuing from left to right in .243 caliber... A sierra Game King 85gr.HP, Barnes 85gr TSX BT, and the Hornday 87gr SP. Finally a couple of cases once fired necked up to .243 one is a Federal Cartrige and the other a PMC Nato spec. Both necked up w/o any issues. I use canola oil for lube after resizing and trimming and wash the rounds before priming.




    I took several pictures to start sharing with anyone interested in this project. I have to remind that I am not building a Grendel or a 6.8 or a BRX or a WSSM. I already have them so I want to do something new closer to mil spec but, again different.

    These are the dies...




    The initial goal would be to military standards of good performance up to 500 to 600 yards for a rifle/carbine.

    The fact that the military abandoned this initiative doesn't mean anything and actually for me is an encouraging factor. After all they have made some pretty bad decisions many times before and it was up to individuals in the military and/or civilians to figure out a solution, sometimes later adopted and successfully implemented.

    Another pic from above....


    Some solid performers...



    Also Amax, Vmax and Bergers area good performers with LC brass, VLD mags. I will post range results as time allows...

    A nice reference chart...



    A picture of one of the systems used for the tests....

    We had some hiccups with the new parts for the gas piston so the piston development will have to wait but it was a nice day out and I couldn't resist putting my hands on the lothar walther barrel so I put the barrel in a delton receiver with a regular hand-guard (floating though) with other spare parts I had and headed for the range with some 70 hand loads.




    I was not expecting much as these were the first shoots to break in the barrel so you know the drill shoot and clean, shoot and clean while I worked in zeroing the scope a 3-9x44 Nikon Monarch with BDC reticle that I had catching dust....

    Started at 25 yards to zero in 2 shots and moved up to 50 yards.
    At this point I am cleaning the barrel after every shot for the first 10 shoots.
    Then every 2 or 3 shots and after a few strings and zero was confirmed I moved the targets to 100 and put 5 rounds...




    I was adjusting the gas block and not paying too much effort into the actual accuracy.
    But then after 40 shots I realized groups were starting to close up so I took a bit extra time.



    At first I was shooting Hornady 87gr SP, that are cheap and great for brake in. I was doing 24gr of H4895 with once fired cheap FC cases and Fiocci primers.

    Then I switch to the remaining of the loads, the last 20 loads that were loaded with 85gr Sierra Game King...

    This is the first group at 100 yards. Obviously when you go to the range you have to forget something and as you can see I have to improvise some targets...



    Wind was picking up but I was so pleased so far that in the last string I put my soul into it. Loaded the last 5 rounds and got a new target......

    100 Yards
    Wind 15mph heading 90
    tem 39F
    PMCx1 fired with Sierra Game King 85gr and 24.3gr of H4895 (in the targets I wrote SMK but I made a mistake they are SGK as I mentioned)



    The main group no more than 1/4 of inch apart with one off 1/2 inch apart.
    The way things are going this barrel and round combination is showing a lot of potential so I will continue to break in with other loads and post the results here.

    I am also fabricating a center stack AR-15 magazine that will allow to seat the bullets further out so it will be interesting to see what we can get.


    This week and after a long summer I was able to finalize both the new upper and lower and today prepared some loads and headed for the range with the new barrel.
    This barrel is practically the same as the first one but with the 1:8 twist vs. the 1:9 twist and the main reason is so we can shoot the following bullets"
    - Berger 95gr Hunting VLD
    - Hornady Amax 105gr.
    Both have superior Ballistic Coeficients of .486 and .500 respectively.
    Just to give you an idea how good the above bullets are, a 168gr A-Max bullet that is a top choice is still behind these two above in terms of ballistic coefficient and sectional density in the 105.
    The barrel is not fully broken in (around 50 shots) but it is already starting to show very good results.

    I took some pictures of the new upper (and lower). The quality is not great since I could not find my good camera so I took them with the phone.

    6x45 20" 1:8 twist. Adams piston. JP bolt. NM trigger. and Troy rails.



    Other side view....



    Matched billet. Very tight...



    PRS stock...



    Troy TRX floating rails (I wished they made one just 12" long) for the piston.




    These are some groups with 87gr SGKs and V-maxes. Today I didn't put a lot of time in the loads or the accuracy as I was running late and was doing things real quickly but so I was pleasantly surprised to see gruops below 1/2 MOA. one group here shot slowly gave .31 MOA. Other groups shot in rapid fire did stay nicely together.



    This is the ballistic charts based on tests with the 1st barrel. It shows superior range and energy.
    Great hunting system even at decent range. I had almost identical results with the Hornady Match HPBTs.
    Although energy is nicely retained recoils is very mild. Obviously a little more
    than the .223.





    Here we can see how energy and speed is nicely held by the V-max.

    It shows clearly 6x45 is a great 300 yards white-tail / pig rifle with close 1000ft/lb at 300 yards and
    also a nice 500-600 yards coyote rifle for those that like the very long shots.



    I am now back at work on the VLD magazines and will post the progress.


    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by meketrefe; 12-31-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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    Private 1AIRBONE's Avatar
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    A lot to digest here. I can't believe this is an actual AR15 doing this. Man, are you a sniper or something? I like that 4 shot clover leaf inside 1/4th inch. Please build me one of those!!!
    Beautiful!

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    Well, I think I just found the end result of the PSA lower I just bought.....
    Time to do some research on this round. Thanks for the heads up, I had never heard of it.

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1AIRBONE View Post
    A lot to digest here. I can't believe this is an actual AR15 doing this. Man, are you a sniper or something? I like that 4 shot clover leaf inside 1/4th inch. Please build me one of those!!!
    Beautiful!
    I had the military training and once I was in a country very far away taking long shots. Lets leave it to that. If you want me to build you one you have to help me with the testing by holding targets for me above your head at 300 yards. Would you? LOL!!
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    Private RochesterSportRifles's Avatar
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    I love stuff like this. If you need someone else behind a trigger let me know. I have been toying with the 7.62X40WT and want to branch out into other stuff. Great stuff here.

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Nice, another upper addict! LOL! I think that Kurt's 7.62x40 made an awesome cartrige. I will tell you a secret for the loads that will give a nice edge over anything both supersonic and subsonic to play with blck at its own subsonic game. Love that stuff too!
    If you like that one you will love the 7mm/223(7mmx42) and the 6.5mm/223 (6.5mmx42). I have them running out of 222 remmag reamers and they make an awesome deer cartrige too. Nothing like a 120pill travelling at 2600-2700 fps. Also the 7mmLBC is pretty nice. I will write about those too.
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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    I found this article interesting where they talk about this round...
    The 6mm As a Military Caliber
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    Private RochesterSportRifles's Avatar
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    I have been watching Graycard's 25-223 and they are pretty close to getting the commercial backing to get the ball rolling big time on it. I am also interested to see if the Sharps 25-45 picks up any momentum.
    meketrefe likes this.

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    that is a good one too!.
    You see the issue here is that everyone is trying to come up with the next "big thing cartridge" for the ARplatform and on top make it with the parent case. Well, nothing is going to be invented at this point. Everything has been already invented a long time ago and now some of the wildcats seem to have renewed interest due to the fact that we love the AR15 and we want to see what else we can shoot from them.
    I think the different offerings appeal to different people for different reasons. It is a world of trade-offs of some sort ALWAYS.
    The reason I posted the 6x45 is because it is the easiest to start and if you see the ballistic charts carefully you will find out that none of the other offsprings is bringing nothing really huge to the table. If you want a potential larger wound cavity at closer range then you can go .308, and on top get the best of the subnic world. But when we get into the .25 caliber is probably as far as we want to go in supersonic if we want to keep a respectable flat trajectory + decent sectional density. Lets face it, for most practical reasons there is very little difference between a 16" and an 18 incher and if one wants to squeeze every little drop of that round even a tad longer. But if one, in fact is allowed for something shorter than 16" then a 308 it is the way to go. If I had to cross to the dark side (slower speeds) with ta decent bullet I would probably stay in the 7mm or 6.5. A few 7mm bullets do very well in a 42mm case.
    For simplicity I would even go a TCU baseline. A lot of folks tell me this is not efficient and I ask them, how so? My questions are what do you want to do with it? How many rounds do you need? What bullet do you think you need? ....ehhh, huuhh, what? total confusion. But lets be realistic, these systems will be consider special purpose, hunting, long range, sniping, even some law enforcement situation. Then of course there is the social media calibers, those that are the latest cool thing that we all have to have! LOL!!
    But in reality for other than fast shooting matches we need few rounds at the time, hunting what maybe 1 or 2 or maybe 4? 5, really? So the idea is to provide a platform that can reliably feed a few rounds of a more efficient and longer from factor round, and for that we have had many good options for decades since folks started to arrive from Vietnam and started to wildcat the 223rem case. this is how the 6x45 was born, in the matches until the BR came along.
    I am researching the 7mm for fun and running in a bolt at the moment. Will require special work on the COAL but will make also a nice option for 7mm 180gr subsonic.
    Now the issue is to finish first by 6.5 project and another 300savage also both from the AR15.

    7mmx42-18"120gr Nosler BT. AA2015
    Range (Yds) 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 700
    Speed (fps) 2520 2306 2103 1913 1734 1567 1410 1264
    Energy (ft.lb) 1692 1416 1179 975 801 654 530 426
    Drop (in) 0.00 2.90 12.37 29.71 56.60 95.11 147.91 218.43
    Path (in) -1.50 2.53 0.00 -10.41 -30.36 -61.95 -107.81 -171.40
    Elevn(MOA) -2.41 0.00 3.31 7.23 11.80 17.11 23.32
    Windage(MOA) 0.45 0.95 1.49 2.07 2.72 3.43 4.22
    Time(Sec) 0.00 0.12 0.26 0.41 0.58 0.76 0.96 1.18
    1AIRBONE likes this.
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    Private 1AIRBONE's Avatar
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    Hey meke,
    How hard is to reload? What bullets do you suggest?
    can you build me one of those special uppers? I will have some tax money coming. seriously... This is amazing.
    JJ.

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    The new barrel is here finally. Ordered on August 30th 2011 and delivered today March 13th 2012. Total 196 Days wait!!!
    6x45 chamber
    1:9 twist 3P
    24" long
    Amazing what I had to go through to get this barrel. I will explain that later now lets put some of the nice reloads to work before they rust.
    The goal is ambitious for the little case but the bullets can make it happen. I have 95gr Berger VLDs, 105gr Amax and 87gr Vmax.
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    Major BUCKrub91's Avatar
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    I NEED the one with the trx rail.. but it would be nice as you said if the rail went up to the piston block
    ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCKrub91 View Post
    I NEED the one with the trx rail.. but it would be nice as you said if the rail went up to the piston block
    I know. Actually I ended up not leaving the piston there as I got better groups with another barrel and the DI but there is another rail that is 13"+. I made a mistake ordering but again I changed to an intermediate gas system (Between mid length and rifle lenght) the thing fits perfect. And it is the most accurate Lothar Walter barrel I have.
    The piston is going into a dissipator system so that will be no orphan.
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    Sergeant default14845's Avatar
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    you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge and experiences.....I hope to meet you someday and pick your brain

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    There is a lot of people out there that know a ton about rifles and many wilcats. I wish I knew as much as some of them already forgot.
    Like the old wise samurai once said... The day I stop learning, that day I am dead.
    Eternal Shogun likes this.
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    Hi Fellaws,
    The krieger barrel arrived this week and finally the weather cleared so I headed to the range with 2 uppers. One is a 24" 1:9 krieger criterion with 5R rifling and the other the BlackHole 24" 1:9 with their poly rifling.
    I also bring with my my trusty lothar walter 20" 1:9 upper to compare. As some of you might already know this is the most accurate 6x45 I have ever seen in years. Custom made barrel from lothar walter custom shop. The porting is between a rifle and mid-lenght.

    These were the powders and bullets tested yesterday and today

    6mm(.243) bullets
    ============
    1-Hornady 87gr HPBT
    2-Hornady 87gr v-Max
    3-Sierra 90gr GK FMJ
    4-Sierra 100gr GK
    5-Nosler 90gr Ballistic Tip.
    6-Berber 95gr Hunting VLD - the bullet maker advertises this as 1:9 rate of twist minimum required.

    Powders:
    =============
    Varget
    H335
    Hogdgon Superformance
    Benchmark

    Brass:
    ========
    LC.06 fireformed

    Like many of you I am not interested in lower grain hunting bullets as they do not have the same design and momentum to handle white tail specially out to 250+ yards.
    I am preparing more data for a full report but initially these are some key points from the preliminary testing.

    ***Needless to say reload at your own risk. Every barrel, chamber and set of conditions are different so you have to start low. I have been doing this for 20+years so I have a pretty good setup and in controlled conditions. Do not assume anything and do your own research.***

    - Brake in went well with both uppers. Used hornady 80gr fmj with 25.4 grains
    of varget at 2.290 COAL.
    - Both barrels starting to show some decent groups already during brake in.
    - After 100 rounds each and a good last clean up I started to put some pressure in the barrels.
    - I started with Hogdon H335 and using the VLD mag these are some of the results...

    H335 & Hornady 87gr HPBT
    ====================
    Average good load
    BH with Hornady 87gr HPBT COAL 2.355 25.25grs H335 .... spread 2759
    Krieger Hornady 87gr HPBT COAL 2.355 25.25grs H335 .... spread 2741

    Max load (Flat primers)
    BH with Hornady 87gr HPBT COAL 2.355 26.00grs H335 .... spread 2801
    Krieger Hornady 87gr HPBT COAL 2.355 26.00grs H335 .... spread 2807

    H335 & Hornady 87gr Vmax
    ====================
    Average good load
    BH with Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.355 24.95grs H335 .... spread 2727
    Krieger Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.355 24.95grs H335 .... spread 2731

    Max load (Flat primers)
    BH with Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.355 25.85grs H335 .... spread 2820
    Krieger Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.355 25.85grs H335 .... spread 2821


    H335 & Sierra Game king 100gr
    =======================
    Average good load
    BH with Sierra GK100gr COAL 2.360 24.75grs H335 .... spread 2641
    Krieger Sierra GK100gr COAL 2.360 24.75grs H335 .... spread 2636

    Max+ load (Flat primers)
    BH with Sierra GK100gr COAL 2.360 25.25grs H335 .... spread 2662
    Krieger Sierra GK100gr COAL 2.360 25.25grs H335 .... spread 2650

    *Note: the BH started key holing so I need to work on the BH barrel a bit more to understand what is going on.

    Superformance
    =========
    Not even worth documenting the results. Like in previous tests this powder is for the history books as one of the worse powders to work with. Probably why it has been pulled out of the data from hogdgon website. So that makes me wonder if they lie about their own data. DO NOT BUY THIS POWDER. Terrible to work with, dirty and doesn't do anything as advertised.

    H. Bechmark
    ==========
    This like Varget during break in was the most accurate and performed really well.

    Benchmark & Hornady 87gr Vmax
    ===========================
    Average good load
    BH with Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.365 25.50grs .... spread 2863
    Krieger Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.365 25.50grs .... spread 2831
    *Both the BH and Krieger gave excellen groups here.

    Max load (Flat primer)
    BH with Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.365 26.20grs .... spread 2932
    Krieger Hornady 87gr V-max COAL 2.365 26.20grs .... spread 2946!!!!
    * Krieger also very accurate here. Great for a 'hot' hunting round with a bit less powder to keep it safe.

    .....
    The rest of the testing I continued with the krieger only. I need to do more research on the Blackhole barrel keyholing issue but anyway I am still moving the data to my database so I will post more data as it becomes available.
    I promise pictures.

    Cheers,
    E.

    Steve, I sent you a PM regarding the mags.
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    Major rhinehart's Avatar
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    Even though it's old, this is what I wanna see more of for this karma!!

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    Agreed.
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    Real time ammo stock and pricing @ gunbot

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    I ran out of time today but I am going to post some information here about some very interesting development with the 6x45 long (deep throated ) AR.
    Essentially I have been able to increase the speed and reduce pressure but increasing a tad total freebore and max COAL. Also experimenting with new powders.
    This is a great round for hunting white tail even mule withing 200 yards and the appropriate bullets. The consistency and accuracy has been maintained and with the 95gr and 105gr VLDs feeding from VLD magazines we can replicate long range trajectories of calibers costing 2 or 3 times
    more to feed.

    Stay connected...
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    Great work once again E., keep us posted with your excellent wildcat developments !
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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr69er View Post
    Great work once again E., keep us posted with your excellent wildcat developments !
    Hi, Thanks.
    I have been working on more reloads. Some a tad on the hot side but still good loads for hunting and long range.
    Now with the 4th of July and vacations approaching the development will have to stop but we will get back to the 6mm and the
    6.5TCU and PCC in no time and getting ready to take some game during hunting season.
    The thing is I am not hunting in NYS for 2 years. At SCOPE we made a pledge to stop supporting the State with funds
    that then are used to rape our rights so hundreds of hunters will not renew our licenses. We will hunt somewhere else
    where governments respect the 2A.
    I am looking to spend some time in PA and AZ to hunt with some of these uppers. I also promise some feedback on
    long shots so people can see how well they do even past 800yards.
    The biggest issue is right now is the forum lost some great members and the whole interest in actual firearms
    and ballistics seems to have shifted to the political side.
    But anyway I will continue posting here and in the other forums I normally post.
    Cheers.
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  22. #22
    Gold Vendor DarkStorm's Avatar
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    Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, I am all for new R&D on the AR platform, but to say there is no benefit from a .308 bullet in the AR15 platform without all kinds of major changes... hello... 300 blackout? Its a great round with excellent ballistics and it is only a barrel change. Plus ammo (in prespective of the current overall shortage) is becoming more prevelant. Just my 2 cents.
    Ed
    Dark Storm Industries, LLC.
    Manufacturer of DS-15 NY SAFE Rifles
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  23. #23
    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Hi,
    I played with the whisper (and blackout now) for years and it is great for subsonic work, no doubt, but in the supersonic world it has huge and obvious limitations so nobody should say great ballistics, actually quite the opposite. This thread is about the 6x45 that all it needs is a simple barrel change too plus brass prep is close to zero and there is no limitation in COAL imposed by the diameter/shape of the bullet unlike the whisper/blackout and others.
    Actually it is as easy or even a tad easier to reload than the .223 itself including in a progressive reloader.
    I only refer to real world data and real test results vs. the fantasy world, sales pitches and sales strategies all over the forums and internet.
    Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke






  24. #24
    Gold Vendor DarkStorm's Avatar
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    It is a huge plus that like the 300, it is a barrel only change. Any new idea does need to start somewhere, my concern is that a very small percentage of gun owners do their own loading so commercial availability of ammunition is key to the success of any new AR cartridge. There have been many and so far, whether deserving or not, the 300 is the first to see some moderate commercial availability.
    Ed
    Dark Storm Industries, LLC.
    Manufacturer of DS-15 NY SAFE Rifles
    www.dark-storm.com

  25. #25
    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    fyi.. Corbon and Blackhills make some brutal 6x45 ammunition.

    6 X 45mm 85gr DPX - DPX Rifle - DPX - CORBON

    I have tested these commercial loads with other commercial alternatives including the blackout too and there is no
    way to even begin to compare in the supersonic world. I guess for the average guy shooting the average deer at close
    to moderate range or a small deer is not going to make much more difference but if the longer shot presents itself and one
    can take it one needs the authority and the speed of a superior cartridge. Everyone has their pet cartriges, I get that.
    I love the whisper/blackout for subsonic work but in terms of supersonic alternatives lets keep it real.

    This 6mm cartridge is not the youtube super duper current fashion mainstream but also it doesn't have to be and it is not a new
    comer or estranger
    at all. I simply took where others had left and take it up a nudge to the next level but the alternative is more
    popular than many people might think.
    It actually won many world matches back in the 60's and 70's until the BR established itself as king.
    So independent from all the AR saturday night fever of alternative calibers today this has proven to be a strong survivor.
    It is actually quite popular in some countries in Europe and Africa. In South Africa is a favorite to take gazelle and deer in the bush country
    due to the flat shooting and at ranges out of reach for other small / intermediate calibers. It is also an adequate mule deer and black bear
    round with the right loads.
    In the end the when it comes to hunting the 6mm starts where the .224 ends and with endless possibilities in terms of bullet options and
    terminal characteristics.

    Since you brought it up below please find the summary from some tests I did all with commercial ammo and short 16" barrels.
    I am not including any reloaded ammo or any other wildcats and only commercial ammunition that one can buy.
    These were measured with an RCBS ammo master all in the same range the same day and same atmospheric conditions.
    I was surprised how well the 80gr .223 double tap ammo did. Something to take into account. I would just not use that bullet
    for serious hunting as it leaves a broad yet shallow wound and, unlike a 308w with an Amax, that is brutal ammo for hunting specially
    in side and rear lung shots when injected right in the plexus. Tactically is superior to both the russian and blackout, I mean unless
    in SBR and CQB configurations but we do not have to worry too much about that in NYS. Anyway the 6.8 is the king there.





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