Confusion on the carry law for places serving alcohol
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  1. #1
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    Default Confusion on the carry law for places serving alcohol

    I have been told different things about what the actual law is for carrying a legal handgun into an establishment that serves alcohol. The following are things I have heard or read, and I need to get a final verdict on which of these are true: 1.) NYS is NOT a state that restricts carry into an establishment that serves alcohol, however, if you are carrying you may not consume alcohol. 2.) NYS is NOT a state that restricts carry into an establishment that serves alcohol, and the CCW holder may even consume alcohol while carrying 3.) You may not carry into an establishment that is a primary BAR, but a restaurant that serves alcohol is permitted for CCW 4.) This one is a quote from the the Niagara County FAQ: "You may not carry a handgun into a bar even if you are not drinking." When I asked in the Pistol Permit office if that is the law or if that is the recommendation by the county, the worker (a temp worker that day) did not give me an answer, only stated "Its common sense not to carry into a bar right? What if a drunk guy sees your pistol and gets scared and attacks?" This seemed like a preposterous statement to me. a.) it would be concealed, b.) people don't typically attack someone carrying a gun, c.) drunk people can be anywhere, not just in bars, d.) if I'm in a place where people are "likely" to attack me, that is the type of place I would most want my handgun for self-protection... ---------------------------------------------------------------- A few notes. I have never carried a gun into any place serving alcohol, but want to know if I have to pick up a friend from Applebee's someday and am carrying, if it would be against the law to walk into the building (for example). Also i am not in any way advocating consuming alcohol while carrying or being around firearms at all, and want to note this so that my questions about what is and is not legal does not get misconstrued as advocating for drinking with a gun... Thanks for any comments that help clarify this issue. (EDIT: I don't understand why this forum won't let me use "enter" to space out my post and prevent the wall of text. Very annoying)

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  3. #2
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    that's another one of those gray areas. i've heard it broken down even further to the extent of what percentage of an establishment's business comes from food vs alcohol as far as classifying it as a restaurant or bar. best bet: be smart.

    and

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  4. #3
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    In the text when I;m typing, Enter works fine for me to. Then when I submit it mushes it all together! In Niagara County we have to sign a form called an "Acknowledgement" form that includes the statement I quoted from Niagara county FAQ. So in Niagara County there is a piece of paper saying I agree to abide by the regulation that I "cannot carry into a bar even if I am not drinking". But that doesn't mean that NYS pistol permit law says the same thing, and in the case of a dispute, i would assume the more restrictive policy would win? Given that a permit can be revoked by the judge in that county? Then it just comes down to what "a bar" is. If i go to a restaurant in downtown Niagara Falls where things can be really sketchy on the street, am i not allowed to CC into that restaurant because they serve fancy wine at the tables?

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    Seems like another one of those restrictions imposed by a licensing official. I've never seen a prohibition in NY related to ccw in an establishment serving alcohol.
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    There is no state law that im aware of right now that would prohibit carry in a bar. However, there is a bill in the senate right now that would prohibit carrying a firearm in an intoxicated state.
    If you've got them by the balls their hearts andminds will follow.

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    Major NLYE's Avatar
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    I'd imagine tripwirez is correct. It's just rational... however, I'd advise against carrying while drinking. It seems reckless, even if you don't think you're gonna drink "that much." I feel like an unnecessary risk is formed by it...
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    My permit came with a note that they "recommend that you do not drink while carrying". Based on that I have to believe its legal but not necessarily a good idea.

    ps. I have a business carry and at times entertain clients but don't consume alcohol when I carry. If I decided to partake in a drink or two my pistol is locked in my car safe and I make a point of forgetting I own a gun
    DIAPERS AND POLITICIANS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN, BOTH FOR THE SAME REASON

  9. #8
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    No law.

  10. #9
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    One more point; this is an area we responsible gun owners need to exercise good judgement if we want to not have our decisions regulated.

    Carrying a gun is a serious responsibility. I little lack of judgement can have dire consequences. I'm not a prude and like to enjoy a few drinks with friends at times but guns are left out the equation
    DIAPERS AND POLITICIANS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN, BOTH FOR THE SAME REASON

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCNYBob View Post
    One more point; this is an area we responsible gun owners need to exercise good judgement if we want to not have our decisions regulated.

    Carrying a gun is a serious responsibility. I little lack of judgement can have dire consequences. I'm not a prude and like to enjoy a few drinks with friends at times but guns are left out the equation
    Quote Originally Posted by OCNYBob View Post
    One more point; this is an area we responsible gun owners need to exercise good judgement if we want to not have our decisions regulated.

    Carrying a gun is a serious responsibility. I little lack of judgement can have dire consequences. I'm not a prude and like to enjoy a few drinks with friends at times but guns are left out the equation
    I agree. I would never drink when using a gun, and i would never drink when carrying a gun.

    The confusion right now is about carrying into a place that serves alcohol (even though I am not drinking). So even though there is no law against it, this county is mandating that CCW cannot carry into a "bar". What happens if that regulation is broken? I assume someone would lose their license, but there would be no other legal repercussion because no official law was broken?

    Then the second problem is determining what is and what is not a "bar". If an establishment serves alcohol at all is it considered a bar (like a fancy restaurant that has a wine list)? What about a restaurant that has an actual bar in it (Applebee's, Friday's, etc)? Or does it mean only a "bar" bar, where the primary focus of the establishment is alcoholic drinks like on Chippewa street in Buffalo?

  12. #11
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    There is NO State law that prohibits you from carrying your concealed handgun into a bar or other location that serves alcohol. None.

    THERE MAY BE A LOCAL LAW OR ORDINANCE THAT WILL MAKE IT ILLEGAL.

    In Broome County, the judge has said that NO CCW holder should be in a bar with their gun. Period. You'll loose the permit.

    YOU need to beck with your own local laws. Look at it this way, is it really a good idea to drink and have a gun with you anyway?
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RochPersDef View Post
    There is NO State law that prohibits you from carrying your concealed handgun into a bar or other location that serves alcohol. None.

    THERE MAY BE A LOCAL LAW OR ORDINANCE THAT WILL MAKE IT ILLEGAL.

    In Broome County, the judge has said that NO CCW holder should be in a bar with their gun. Period. You'll loose the permit.

    YOU need to beck with your own local laws. Look at it this way, is it really a good idea to drink and have a gun with you anyway?
    You must not have read my last post... directly above yours, where I state very clearly that I would never drink and have a gun...

    Also, I am aware that localities can state that you may not do something even if it is not officially illegal. What Im asking at this point is if anyone knows anything about how a "bar" is defined for CC in NYS or in Niagara County.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    You must not have read my last post... directly above yours, where I state very clearly that I would never drink and have a gun...

    Also, I am aware that localities can state that you may not do something even if it is not officially illegal. What Im asking at this point is if anyone knows anything about how a "bar" is defined for CC in NYS or in Niagara County.
    You can check with the ABC law (Alcohol & Beverage Control) on how establishments are defined.
    If you've got them by the balls their hearts andminds will follow.

  15. #14
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    Usually, it is defined as an establishment that derives at least 51% of revenue from the sales of alcohol.
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RochPersDef View Post
    Usually, it is defined as an establishment that derives at least 51% of revenue from the sales of alcohol.
    That makes sense...
    If you've got them by the balls their hearts andminds will follow.

  17. #16
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    I think we all agree that it's dangerous to draw a weapon if you have been drinking, but what about carrying? Imagine you run into trouble walking to the bar? Do you have a "if I drink, I keep it holstered" or "if I am going to drink I leave it at home" rule.

  18. #17
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    There is absolutely no law that says you can't carry in a bar. Many permit offices have guideline letters they had out saying things like It is not considered good policy or behavior to.
    back when I first got my permit ( in the 1980's !) I got such a lletter
    this stuff is in the same category as admin restrictions not a law- just some beaurocracy over reaching

  19. #18
    Sergeant armyman73's Avatar
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    Drinking and carrying, just like drinking and driving, once you get caught it then becomes a big issue. I would not do either, but it only takes a few to screw it up. Hell we even had a Sheriff Deputy get caught doing both.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinehart View Post
    I'd imagine tripwirez is correct. It's just rational... however, I'd advise against carrying while drinking. It seems reckless, even if you don't think you're gonna drink "that much." I feel like an unnecessary risk is formed by it...
    I used to be a bartender. The last thing we wanted was someone carrying a pistol while drinking. It can only lead to problems, as I found out one Saturday evening.

  21. #20
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    In my Broome County upgrade class, I asked "what about a place like Applebee's or Ground Round if you're going for dinner, and what about the common practice of waiting in the bar area for a table or if they SEAT you in the bar area?" The answer RPD gave was "that's fine... You're there for a meal."

  22. #21
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    Being this is America....I don't understand the restrictions or potential restrictions on any handgun permit issued in NY. After being issued the conceal/carry permit, I believe a person is "certified" as a trusted,law abiding citizen. That means to Me, anyone that has gone through the process of obtaining a conceal/carry permit should be able to carry anywhere, and I mean ANYWHERE in NY without restrictions .

    As of now, I can't carry My pistol in a school. Why ? I'm not a criminal. Bar restrictions...Why ? I'm a responsible grownup. There is room for drink and drive...up to .08 and it's ok. How many accidents have killed men , women,children with less than .08 or more than .001. County/federal or state buildings...why ? And of corse...trains/planes/ships...(all traveling exclusively in Ny for sake of argument)

    We've been background checked,fingerprinted,photographed, catagorized and logged and the sir cuomo wants more repititious background checks every time we buy a gun. WHY ?

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  23. #22
    Major nessman's Avatar
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    No law.

    The way I see it is if I can drink responsibly, then I can carry responsibly. Just because I had a few doesn't mean I'm any less vulnerable on the way back to my car.
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  24. #23
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    Rochester NY says you can't carry if your BAC exceeds on tenth of 1% ... 0.001 ( http://www.nysrpa.org/files/chapter47-rochester.pdf ).

    Handgunlaw.us has a definition and advice that seems reasonable to me: "yes" to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Places like Friday’s, Chili’s or Red Lobster. This may or may not mean the bar or the bar area of a restaurant. But you can carry your firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol and sit and eat without consuming. Handgunlaw.us recommends you not sit at the Bar or in the Bar area of such restaurants.
    Last edited by dave9988; 03-02-2013 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Lousy math, need coffee

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    Edit, nevermind I see you caught it too.
    Last edited by Figment; 03-02-2013 at 11:52 AM.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave9988 View Post
    Rochester NY says you can't carry if your BAC exceeds on tenth of 1% ... 0.001 ( http://www.nysrpa.org/files/chapter47-rochester.pdf ).

    Except that now I'm confused. The math holds, one tenth of 1% = 0.001. But it seems BAC is expressed in terms of percentages. So one tenth of one percent of alcohol in someone's blood is 0.001, but that translates to a BAC of 0.01. [correction, BAC of 0.10]

    Bottom line, drinking and carrying are not a good combination.
    Last edited by dave9988; 03-05-2013 at 08:49 AM.

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