THR Letter to the editor....
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  1. #1
    Captain Bllade's Avatar
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    Default THR Letter to the editor....

    This was in the Letters of today's Times Herald Record;
    It is essential that our na*tional policies on guns be changed for the safety of the public. Statistics show that for every household having a gun, the rate of homicide and suicide within that household is three to five times greater than those without guns.
    (Check out http://www.bra*dycampaign. org/risks-of-hav*ing- a-gun-in-the-home.) We have far too many shoot*ings, including the multitude of slaughters in schools by other students.
    How would you factually respond to this?
    Disabled American Veteran, I Bled for my Country...
    I'll bleed for my RIghts! FUAC!!

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  3. #2
    Major Norm DeGuerre's Avatar
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    why waste your time
    put your efforts to a useful activity, like cleaning house in Albany

    this is a great example of the divide and conquer strategy so effective in the US
    twitter, etc is a great tool to engage people, and satisfy them that their opinion is important
    what it really is, is a total waste of energy

  4. #3
    Captain Bllade's Avatar
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    Norm, I can not help but wonder how effective your stance is. I'm beginning to believe that things like this cannot go unanswered. At what point do we start to stand up and fight lies and half truths with the actual truth or counter point?
    I no longer believe in being the kinder gentler side, but rather I now believe in fighting fire with fire and at the very least bring a flamethrower.
    Disabled American Veteran, I Bled for my Country...
    I'll bleed for my RIghts! FUAC!!

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bllade View Post
    This was in the Letters of today's Times Herald Record;

    It is essential that our na*tional policies on guns be changed for the safety of the public. Statistics show that for every household having a gun, the rate of homicide and suicide within that household is three to five times greater than those without guns.
    (Check out http://www.bra*dycampaign. org/risks-of-hav*ing- a-gun-in-the-home.) We have far too many shoot*ings, including the multitude of slaughters in schools by other students.

    How would you factually respond to this?

    It is also factual that households with prescription narcotics experience drug overdoses more than households without narcotics in them. Should we remove (or make illegal) painkillers from those homes and allow the chronic pain sufferers to live in agony?
    Households with alcohol abusing adults tend to produce children more prone to alcohol abuse. Should we outlaw alcohol, again?

  7. #5
    Major calculon's Avatar
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    Families that own cars are much more likely to be injured in a car accident than those that don't own cars. You can make any statistic sound threatening,

  8. #6
    Captain Bllade's Avatar
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    What about statistical evidence that households with firearms have prevented criminal activity? Anyone?
    Disabled American Veteran, I Bled for my Country...
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    Major vanderblack's Avatar
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    People who use guns for self-protection in robberies and assaults are less likely to have the crime completed against them (in a robbery, this means losing their property), and, contrary to widespread belief, are less likely to be injured, compared to either victims who use other forms of resistance or to victims who do nothing to resist.

    Widespread gun ownership may also deter burglars from entering occupied homes, reducing confrontations with residents, and thereby reducing deaths and injuries. U.S. burglars are far less likely to enter occupied premises than burglars in nations with lower gun ownership.
    There are 3 kinds of people in this world: Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder, what just happened. Unfortunately the third category is out-distancing the other 2 by a large margin.

  10. #8
    Captain Bllade's Avatar
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    As much as I hate to say this I actually went to the brady website (i feel like I need to detox now) and two things they push heavily, 1) Donate, Donate Donate, to the brady center, and 2) Write, write, write, Facebook, twitter all social media AND, LETTERS TO THE EDITOR and even have a section on writing effective letters.
    Why should we be doing any less??
    Disabled American Veteran, I Bled for my Country...
    I'll bleed for my RIghts! FUAC!!

  11. #9
    General waldershrek's Avatar
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    Anybody getting statistics from the Brady bunch is clearly not fit to be writing to the editor. If you're going to respond, I would respond that the last writers statistics are not correct and provide the correct stats. Or maybe provide some recent examples from news around the country where somebody (especially a woman or elderly person) defended themselves with a gun.
    Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm

  12. #10
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    First of all the Brady Campaign is NOT a credible source. When he can provide a reference to the peer reviewed study that produced this statistic then I will consider that his stat may have some validity.

    Despite the author's deceptive intent, one cannot conclude that guns make people more prone to homicide and/or suicide based on that or any other statistic. Correlation does NOT equal causation.

    You can also attack his choice of wording. Statistics, by their very nature, do not absolutely predict the circumstances of an individual household. There are likely tens of thousands of gun owning households that have homicide and murder rates of zero (and this would be shown if we could analyze the data that his statistic is based on). By stating that "for every household having a gun, the rate of homicide and suicide within that household is three to five times greater than those without guns" (emphasis mine) the author is making a blatantly false statement.

  13. #11
    Major PJZWTL's Avatar
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    I would pick apart those numbers, do the math and they don't work out. I have seen anti numbers that according to them based on current population we have all been shot 2.6 times. Look for the gov (FBI) statistics they generally contradict the anti's story line
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  14. #12
    Colonel ProgSpear's Avatar
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    How about households where household members hold liberal progressive viewpoints have an 87% higher incidence of mental illness than households with conservative members. I figure if libs can pull numbers out of their butts, so can I.

    Actually, my "statistic" was more accurate than theirs but too low. See http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/wh...-mental-health

    Condition Democrat Republican % Incidence Dem v. Rep
    PTSD 7.96 3.97 101%
    ADHD 9.13 3.97 130%
    Anxiety 20.84 10.26 103%
    Depression 34.43 23.51 46%
    95%

    "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson
    “Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God.” - Benjamin Franklin
    "If a lefty says it, it's a lie" - Me

  15. #13
    Captain mfaith's Avatar
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    From Gunfacts.info

    Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.


    Fact: The number of times per year an American uses a firearm to deter a home invasion
    alone is 498,000.203

    Fact: In 83.5%
    (2,087,500) of these
    successful gun
    defenses, the attacker
    either threatened or
    used force first,
    proving that guns are
    very well suited for
    self-defense.

    Fact: The rate of
    defensive gun use
    (DGU) is six times
    that of criminal gun
    use.204

    Fact: Of the
    2,500,000 times
    citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning
    shot to scare off their attackers.

    Fact: Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than
    one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed.205

    Fact: In one local review of firearm homicide, more than 12% were civilian legal
    defensive homicides.
    206

    202 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
    203 Estimating intruder-related firearm retrievals in U.S. households, 1994. Robin M. Ikeda , Violence and
    Victims, Winter 1997
    204 Crime statistics: Bureau of Justice Statistics - National Crime Victimization Survey (2005). DGU
    statistics: Targeting Guns, Kleck (average of 15 major surveys where DGUs were reported)
    205 Targeting Guns, Kleck, from the National Self-Defense Survey, 1995
    206 Death by Gun: One Year Later, Time Magazine, May 14, 1990
    NRA, NYSRPA, SCOPE, GOA, SAF, NJSAF
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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bllade View Post
    As much as I hate to say this I actually went to the brady website (i feel like I need to detox now) and two things they push heavily, 1) Donate, Donate Donate, to the brady center, and 2) Write, write, write, Facebook, twitter all social media AND, LETTERS TO THE EDITOR and even have a section on writing effective letters.
    Why should we be doing any less??
    The " Brady a Bunch " are the same ones contesting the Safe act with the ( Time ) line in the appellants brief . They are well noted for using fictious facts concerning just about every firearm statistic written ! The " Brady Bunch " also has a vested interest with Bloomy in Shannon ( I'm a dumbass ) watts ! It's hard to fight a case of the dumbass with truthful stats because when these folks start losing they start to scream louder ! This is the modus operendi !
    Ask for no quarter and expect none . There is no dress rehearsals in life ,you only go around once !

  17. #15
    Major Cooolone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bllade View Post
    This was in the Letters of today's Times Herald Record;

    Statistics show that for every household having a gun, the rate of homicide and suicide within that household is three to five times greater than those without guns.

    How would you factually respond to this?
    Really? So they now still want to white wash the FBI statistics concerning gun ownership and crime, ie, becoming a victim! They will use statistics incorrectly, as in that post they fail to identify legal guns in the household, fail to identify the homicide persons being an attacker/intruder or whatnot, etc...

    The Link to the Brady Campaign is the major tell here, their just as bad as the Mom's group and Bloombucks who have no issues bending truth in order to elicit a prescribed emotional response! So they went from 77 to multitude of school shootings. Very credible... (Not)

    So anyways, I would respond by asking the person to just watch the original Death Wish, which contains a very graphic and disturbing rape scene. And stop the movie right after that scene. Ask them then, to be honest with themselves, and decide what 'they' would do at that moment? What would they do if they had access to a knife? A gun? Would they defend themselves? Only if total pacifist and or submissive personality would they say they'd do nothing and allow themselves and or their daughter to be violated in the manner depicted in those scenes. Yes, it's only a movie and easy to say you would do this, or that... But it's a good jump off point for a serious discussion.

    The only thing I acknowledge as truthful is the suicide rates. But it also is not an accurate statistic, because of access to the firearm makes that method of choice the vehicle to delivery the deed. The suicidal mindset would find another and probably more gory method to achieve the same results, trains, bridges, poison, drugs... All depicted dramatically in movies as painless, but in reality, anything but!!!

    Anyways, I wouldn't care what they think, or try to change their mind... Because the real. Formation is out there for anyone who wishes to nicest sme time and make an informed decision on their own.
    "It is the First Responsibility of every Citizen to question Authority!!!" - Ben Franklin
    "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants!" - Thomas Jefferson
    I've been banned here, as ridiculous as that may seem!

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  19. #17
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    Thanks for the list, Doc.

    mfaith - nice one there too.

  20. #18
    Colonel catskillkid's Avatar
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    Just put a link to John Lott's book which actually shows some real research. God, I hate the Record. Some days its worse than the NY Times.
    NRA * GOA * NYSRPA * SCOPE * SAF

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  21. #19
    General Phazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bllade View Post
    This was in the Letters of today's Times Herald Record;
    It is essential that our na*tional policies on guns be changed for the safety of the public. Statistics show that for every household having a gun, the rate of homicide and suicide within that household is three to five times greater than those without guns.
    (Check out http://www.bra*dycampaign. org/risks-of-hav*ing- a-gun-in-the-home.) We have far too many shoot*ings, including the multitude of slaughters in schools by other students.
    How would you factually respond to this?
    1. First, how is suicide a "public" health issue? It is more of a mental health issue. Additionally, when SSRI antidepressants first became widely used, an increase in suicide rate among those who took the medications was noted. Why exactly? Unclear. But, some postulated that those who were pathologically clinically depressed were treated just enough to feel "better" and go out and get the firearm or actually commit their act instead of just sitting around. Should we now stop treating depression for all people because of the "risk?" Again...it's really a matter of a risk assessment versus an absolute statement of yes or no.

    2. Be careful how "homicide" is recorded in left-leaning anti-firearm statistics. Frequently, the term homicide is applied to any death resulting from the discharge of a firearm. The death of a home intruder shot by a mother protecting her children could be recorded as a "homicide."

    3. "Household having a gun" may not mean what we generally think. This term should, ideally, mean that a firearm is legally purchased and kept by a trained adult who passed a NICS check. This may not be the case. The firearm in the household could be illegally obtained and owned by a person who is either untrained or themselves a criminal. "Household" could pertain to a domicile involved in gang or drug activities. We don't know.

    4. Many more "students" are killed each year in motor vehicle accidents as a result of "legal" activities such as cell phone use while driving than in mass shootings. Many more "students" are killed each year as a result of drunk driving where either the students are the drivers or the students are hit by drivers. Wouldn't it be more prudent to ban these "students" from using cell phones or drinking? Of course, underage alcohol use is already illegal....which just shows how effective laws are at saving lives. If these activities aren't banned, then perhaps we should just not allow these "students" to drive or ride in cars. That would save many more lives than additional restrictions on firearms. The fallacy of the argument is that the firearms cause mass shootings. It is not a hardware issue. It is a criminal issue. I have yet to see any caliber firearm move down the street or into a school, under its own power, and shoot anybody. Once this happens, I'll support banning that type of machine.
    Hey, Liberals....George Orwell's 1984 was supposed to be a work of fiction.
    NOT an instruction manual.

  22. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJZWTL View Post
    I would pick apart those numbers, do the math and they don't work out. I have seen anti numbers that according to them based on current population we have all been shot 2.6 times. Look for the gov (FBI) statistics they generally contradict the anti's story line
    That analysis won't fit in a 75 word blurb. That's the thing, it's a lot easier to use a disreputable source to try and make a pithy point than show why it's wrong.

  23. #21
    Colonel spat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterswimmer View Post
    It is also factual that households with prescription narcotics experience drug overdoses more than households without narcotics in them. Should we remove (or make illegal) painkillers from those homes and allow the chronic pain sufferers to live in agony?
    Households with alcohol abusing adults tend to produce children more prone to alcohol abuse. Should we outlaw alcohol, again?
    More people die in hospitals than all other locations combined...
    We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
    Albert Einstein

  24. #22
    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    I suggest you invite someone to your club and introduce then
    to shooting sports and/or hunting and proper firearms ownership
    rather than responding to worthless propaganda.
    Education, discvery and real experiences that actually
    make a difference.

  25. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanderblack View Post
    People who use guns for self-protection in robberies and assaults are less likely to have the crime completed against them (in a robbery, this means losing their property), and, contrary to widespread belief, are less likely to be injured, compared to either victims who use other forms of resistance or to victims who do nothing to resist.

    Widespread gun ownership may also deter burglars from entering occupied homes, reducing confrontations with residents, and thereby reducing deaths and injuries. U.S. burglars are far less likely to enter occupied premises than burglars in nations with lower gun ownership.

    This, plus use statistics from that city in Georgia that has a mandatory law of having a shotgun in the home. Crime plummeted something like 56% in 2 years. Not sure if the actual percentage, you have to look it up.

    edit:

    its kennesaw, ga

    heres the crime history.
    Crime rate in Kennesaw, Georgia (GA): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics

    25 years murder-free in ‘Gun Town USA’
    Last edited by StrongIsland; 08-02-2014 at 10:29 AM.

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