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Thread: Tresmond Lawsuit information - USE THIS THREAD

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    Good afternoon.

    The State has responded to Dywinski.

    We are reviewing the response and will update shortly.
    On a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being laughable (response to NYSRPA) and 10 being competent (???), can you give us an idea of where the state response falls in Dywinski?

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Briefly,

    With respect to registration:

    Central to the State's answer is that Petitioners Dywinski and Lefkowitz lack standing to sue because they have not yet been subjected to the registration requirement.
    Tim, GUNSICK1, DaveM4P99 and 3 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    Briefly,

    With respect to registration:

    Central to the State's answer is that Petitioners Dywinski and Lefkowitz lack standing to sue because they have not yet been subjected to the registration requirement.
    and yet the NYSP arrest people for law not yet in effect, interesting retort ?
    snkypete, DaveM4P99 and deathsythe like this.

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  4. #479
    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    We need to get a copy of the reply scanned in and posted online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    Briefly,

    With respect to registration:

    Central to the State's answer is that Petitioners Dywinski and Lefkowitz lack standing to sue because they have not yet been subjected to the registration requirement.
    Yet they have. The registration window has already opened. The only thing they haven't been subjected to is the consequences of a failure to comply with the registration. You have to have a martyr to make law in the USA? Please ....

    (Thanks for the update. Really looking forward to outcome of 1/16/2014).
    Suby, ChrisWNY, DaveM4P99 and 1 others like this.
    Wrongs like Newtown and NY SAFE cannot take rights, they serve only to underscore their importance. "Attempts to detect imminently violent individuals based on profiles or checklists of characteristics are ineffective and are most likely to result in false identification of innocent students or other individuals as being dangerous when they actually pose little or no threat." 12/19/12 Connecticut School Shooting Position Stmt.

  6. #481
    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarsEutoksur View Post
    Yet they have. The registration window has already opened. The only thing they haven't been subjected to is the consequences of a failure to comply with the registration. You have to have a martyr to make law in the USA? Please ....

    (Thanks for the update. Really looking forward to outcome of 1/16/2014).
    That is correct.

    It is also important to note the following:

    I. Article 78 of the New York Civil Practice Law and Rules (the "CPLR", rules governing all New York civil lawsuits) allows for injunctive relief against a "body" or "officer" that is about to, but has not, proceed without or in excess of its jurisdiction. Here, the Petitioners argue that the New York State Police lack jurisdiction to enforce such a registration scheme upon them.

    II. Article 78 is the proper vehicle to challenge the constitutional power of a legislature to enact law in violation of the United States Constitution. See Bon-Air Est. v. Bldg. Inspector, Ramapo, 31 A.D.2d 502, 298 N.Y.S. 2d 763 (N.Y. App. Div. 1969) (affirming judgment of the Special Term decreeing local building laws unconstitutional).

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    Does the fact that the trial will begin after registration goes into effect negate their argument about not having standing anyway?

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    Max,
    Does this mean the case is dead in the water?
    "...man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: as government expands, liberty contracts." -R.Reagan

    Deo Vindice.

  9. #484
    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyolegoat View Post
    Max,
    Does this mean the case is dead in the water?
    What? God no.

    Challenging standing is about as basic an answer gets.
    jmac00, ChrisWNY, hoodfu and 10 others like this.

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    When do we get to read it??? It's not top secret is it?? It's just a response.
    Quote Originally Posted by StrongIsland View Post
    The response probably resembles that of a 3rd grader. Can't wait to read it.
    Rethin, monkey and DaveM4P99 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    What? God no.

    Challenging standing is about as basic an answer gets.

    Max. Glad to hear your feeling better. Could you share with us your anticipation of the duration of the trial? Do you anticipate that it will be days or weeks to the positive outcome ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontsight45 View Post
    Max. Glad to hear your feeling better. Could you share with us your anticipation of the duration of the trial? Do you anticipate that it will be days or weeks to the positive outcome ?
    or

    what are the chances the state will try and get this court date moved to February or March or April, just t0 string it out

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    hey guys hows it going? I'm new to the forum here, still doing a little bit of learning navigating the forum and what not. So max, how are you? by the way i would like to take the chance to thank you and the others fighting along with you to overturn this tyranny we call the NYSAFE ACT. is there any news or updates on registration etc? My last question is, since ar-15 lowers and uppers are still readily available and legal to purchase and own present day in NY, how can someone go about building one that is compliant with NY? since putting a traditional lower and upper together in unison is illegal and in the words of the liberals and democrats, evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    We need to get a copy of the reply scanned in and posted online.

    Max, have you been able to scan that in yet? My members have been requesting an update and I would love to float the answer around Facebook.

    Thank you!

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    Also, I am sure that it is located somewhere within these pages, but I do not have the time or patience to wade through them. Where will the trial be held on the 16th. We have members that would like to attend either within the courtroom, or outside, in a show of support. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baemr View Post
    Does the fact that the trial will begin after registration goes into effect negate their argument about not having standing anyway?
    They don't even have the argument correct. The legal argument they are making is that our argument on registration is not ripe yet. That is actually a different legal argument and they are not even labeling their argument correctly. Standing relates to the party's interest in the case, if you own a rifle, you have standing.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadoc View Post
    By way of a summary:
    I asked this question (reprinted above) in a previous post and you gave a much needed, encouraging reply. It would greatly relieve my anxieties if you could affirm your previous opinion. Are you and the team still confident of injunctive relief prior to enactment?

    As always, please accept my everlasting appreciation for your dedication and service to this cause.
    If we win the trial before April 15, 2014 on that issue, no registration period. If not, then the law does go into effect and then you have the issue of enforcement of an unconstitutional law on law abiding gun owners while the appeals play out. That is the worst case scenario we hope is not faced. We need to win the trial. We will do everything we can to accomplish that goal. I am confident but not cocky and it would of course not be wise to make statements that would alienate the court against our clients.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Gunsick1 I came over here to answer your question from my thread to Max. Max will be getting the state's reply to the petition online soon.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    or

    what are the chances the state will try and get this court date moved to February or March or April, just t0 string it out
    The state has filed a motion to dismiss based on lack of standing but the arguments are not strong and are not likely to result in a dismissal.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buell056 View Post
    Thanks for being upfront Shooter.... Appreciate the honesty.
    Your welcome and of course we all have very strong opinions about this motion and everything else, especially me, but we cannot post those. Everything posted will be worded in an appropriate way. Please do not take that as lack of confidence or enthusiasm on our part.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    If we win the trial before April 15, 2014 on that issue, no registration period. If not, then the law does go into effect and then you have the issue of enforcement of an unconstitutional law on law abiding gun owners while the appeals play out. That is the worst case scenario we hope is not faced. We need to win the trial. We will do everything we can to accomplish that goal. I am confident but not cocky and it would of course not be wise to make statements that would alienate the court against our clients.
    wait, I'm confused ,which is not hard to do....... Does this mean we don't get an injunction unless you win the trial? I thought we'd get the injunction while the trial is on so the state can't enforce this pile of crap law until the trial is over.?

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    SHOOTER -

    Can we get a word doc / PDF..anything..of the Tresmond / Dywinski complaint that you guys filed???

    It would be great if we all could read it and see what you are actually fighting for..what aspects of the law are actually being challenged...and how they are being challenged.

    I assume you have an electronic copy somewhere.

    I can even host it myself if you can send to me.

    Thanks!!

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    Shooter,

    Can I be the plaintiff in an ammo lawsuit for the Tresmonds? I am a police officer. I need access to affordable ammunition to train with. I can't afford to spend 2X the price per box at the LGS. I need access to online ammunition otherwise I can't afford to train, financial burden, etc, etc. This in turn puts my life in danger, besides of course all of the Constitutional laws it violates: commerce, etc.
    * NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE * GOA LIFE * SAF LIFE * NYSRPA * SCOPE LIFE *

    This law is dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximillianTresmond View Post
    That is correct.

    It is also important to note the following:

    I. Article 78 of the New York Civil Practice Law and Rules (the "CPLR", rules governing all New York civil lawsuits) allows for injunctive relief against a "body" or "officer" that is about to, but has not, proceed without or in excess of its jurisdiction. Here, the Petitioners argue that the New York State Police lack jurisdiction to enforce such a registration scheme upon them.

    II. Article 78 is the proper vehicle to challenge the constitutional power of a legislature to enact law in violation of the United States Constitution. See Bon-Air Est. v. Bldg. Inspector, Ramapo, 31 A.D.2d 502, 298 N.Y.S. 2d 763 (N.Y. App. Div. 1969) (affirming judgment of the Special Term decreeing local building laws unconstitutional).

    For or those who haven't searched every reference that Max listed here is a piece for everyone to chew on. Guys when we get info ... Look it up .... They are giving us the precedents to fight the safe act without spelling out their case for us. Read this .... seems very familiar ....I just did a search for Bon-Air vs .......

    Where the purported purpose of municipal legislation is to regulate a lawful activity, but its real purpose is "to prohibit by onerous and exasperating restrictions, under the guise of regulation" (People ex rel. Phillips v. Raynes, 136 App. Div. 417, 423, affd. 198 N.Y. 539), the ordinance will be deemed unconstitutional and invalid (Trio Distr. Corp. v. City of Albany, 2 N.Y.2d 690, 693). "When regulation becomes destruction, it ceases to be regulation" (Eighth Ave. Coach Corp. v. City of New York, 286 N.Y. 84, 94). The police power may not be invoked to sustain an unauthorized invasion of the citizen's rights and privileges (Bowen v. City of Schenectady, 136 Misc. 307, 310).
    At bar, it seems to us that the town has started with the premise, omitted from the legislation itself but constituting its true motivating force, that some builders of one- and two-family homes are jerry-builders who too often disappear, liability-wise,
    when buyers discover faults in the homes purchased. Thus, Local Laws Nos. 4 and 5 suffer from the common vice that they begin with the conviction that, since some builders prove bad risks in litigation brought by disappointed buyers of one- and two-family homes, all engaged in the calling are equally to be rigorously regulated in their pursuit of a lawful calling. There are not present in this case any statistics or findings indicating that the experience of the town's new residents in dealing with faulty builders amounts to a public emergency of some kind. Likewise absent is any explanation of why enforcement of the New York State Building Construction Code (Executive Law, art. 18, 370-387), which the town has adopted, has failed to keep the few errant builders up to the required mark of good building practice. Moreover, the town fails to indicate how having adopted that code it may deviate therefrom contrary to the following provision of the enabling law (Executive Law, 386): "no municipality in which the state building construction code has been accepted and is applicable shall have the power to supersede, void, or repeal or make more restrictive any of the provisions of this article".
    In sum, it seems to us that, contrary to the strictures contained in the Good Humor case (supra), the town has failed to make or support a legislative finding "that discrimination between the useful and the harmful is impractical" (Good Humor Corp. v. City of New York, 290 N.Y. 312, 321, supra). In view of the rule that a municipality's power to regulate business must be exercised reasonably within constitutional limitations "not arbitrarily or in restraint of trade, without discrimination, and fairly to all alike" (62 C. J. S., Municipal Corporations, 235, p. 594), it is our opinion that the local laws here assailed fail largely because they were drawn without inherent demonstration of the facts tending to support their reasonableness (62 C. J. S., Municipal Corporations, 235, p. 595).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JosERW View Post
    Shooter,

    Can I be the plaintiff in an ammo lawsuit for the Tresmonds? I am a police officer. I need access to affordable ammunition to train with. I can't afford to spend 2X the price per box at the LGS. I need access to online ammunition otherwise I can't afford to train, financial burden, etc, etc. This in turn puts my life in danger, besides of course all of the Constitutional laws it violates: commerce, etc.
    Send me all your contact info, let's talk my strong 2A supporting LEO. Wish all were like you my friend, we are fortunate to have support in law enforcement.
    Last edited by Shooter; 12-21-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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