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Thread: Tresmond Lawsuit information - USE THIS THREAD

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    Tim
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    Default Tresmond Lawsuit information - USE THIS THREAD

    Ok folks here's how this thread will work.

    - it's here so that MaximillianTresmond and Shooter can answer questions and post information so that they don't have to search threads here
    - only ask direct questions
    - extraneous comments are going to be removed. Let Max and Shooter answer the questions
    - MaximillianTresmond is the son of James Tresmond.
    - Shooter is an attorney working with the Tresmonds on the SAFE act lawsuits

    This thread does not need to be cluttered with BS. I don't want speculation or questions about anything not related directly to his suit. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss particular details if you want to, but don't clutter up this thread.

    Some links:

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514460
    Class action lawsuit against SAFE Act | WIVB.com



    Have a question for the team? Cool, post it up.

    Have a comment/answer? Post somewhere else or PM the person that asked the question.

    Stop posting comments in here. The Tresmond team should be the only people answering questions. I'm going to start handing out 1 day bans for people that don't follow the rules.




    -Nirvanafan 9/18 - edited to change a couple details
    -NirvanaFan 10/7 - Added blurb about 1 day bans
    Last edited by NirvanaFan; 10-07-2013 at 07:13 PM.
    http://www.facebook.com/nyfirearms

    NRA member, SCOPE NY member, NYSRPA member

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Good evening friends,

    I am here with six attorneys, including James Tresmond himself. The Q&A process begins now. Perhaps it would be better in a chat room forum, but we're going to do the best we can to keep up.

    Please be advised that this is probably not the best place to debate strategy, and we're going to be refreshing the page constantly, but if there is a flood of questions, something might get lost. If that happens, it's not intentional.

    -Maximillian

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    This is a good question to start with:

    This case is primarily focused on the 'registration' portion of the law correct?


    The case attacks the following parts of the law:

    1. Bans on commonly owned weapons, such as shotguns. If the court upholds the common use doctrine, which it ultimately must because Heller is settled law, the Assault Weapons ban must follow. So the case does attack the ban.

    2. The registration provision

    3. The magazine ban

    That's the primary focus of the lawsuit, which are the most problematic restrictions on gun owners here in New York.



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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridewithme38 View Post
    I understand that an injunction is completely at the judges discretion, so Very unlikely at this point. But, how likely are we to get granted trial by jury?

    I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, my only experience with the legal system is custody & Visitation, which never seems to work out for the fathers....
    This is how the team has decided to respond:

    A trial by jury is available as a matter of right whenever there are issues of fact to be determined. Plaintiff's must waive the right to trial by jury whenever the court must determine issues of fact at trial. There are issues of fact in question. Mr. Dywinski and Mr. Lefkowitz have demanded a jury trial to resolve all issues of fact in this case.

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisWNY View Post
    Hypothetical question here - what happens if Cuomo's cronies amend UNSAFE (within a month) in such a way that it partially invalidates the lawsuit? Say, for example, the 7-round limit stays in, but specific wording is added that it applies to semi-autos only? The whole pump-action shotgun argument becomes moot right?
    Excellent question. If the law is amended in such a way that eliminates the registration provision, or any of the bans, we win and a trial is not necessary. If only one of the parts of the law in amended in such a way, the Plaintiff's intention is to prosecute this law as unconstitutional to the fullest, whatever remains of the law. This legal challenge isn't going away, much to the chagrin of the law's supporters.
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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjfritz07 View Post
    I work in medicine, not legal so excuse the ignorance. What happens if we get a lib on the jury who doesn't care about facts (hard to imagine I know) and still doesn't agree?
    Civil trials do not require a unanimous verdict. If it's 5 - 1 us, we still win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirk11235 View Post
    Good evening. First, thank you all for taking the time to do this (not only to answer questions, but for all the effort required for the lawsuit in general) I was curious if you could go into a bit more detail on what portions of the "magazine ban" you are going after? the 7 round limit? making currently owned pre-bans illegal? Other? Thanks!
    The lawsuit attacks all magazine bans. The high capacity ammunition feeding devices. And the +7 round magazine ban through the common use doctrine.

    Thank you for your support. This has been a lot of work for everyone involved, and everyone is donating their time on this case. The kind support from the public, along with the ultimate defense of our rights, makes this case worth it for everyone.
    mattiep321 and 45guru like this.

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayKnobs View Post
    Do you know where this jury trial is going to take place yet?
    Of course. If and when the case gets to trial, it will be before Hon. Diane Devlin in New York State Supreme Court. (Please do NOT contact this Judge's chambers. I cannot stress that enough. The court room is NOT a public forum for comment.)
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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cress View Post
    If the case is successful does this mean we revert back to the '94 assault weapons ban, or will the assault weapons ban be completely gone?
    Most likely the 94 ban, however it is possible, depending on how the highest court rules, that the 94 ban might be stricken, as well. That would hinge on how the highest court who hears the case applies the Heller doctrine. That being said, everyone here tonight stresses that the lawsuit has been raised in objection to certain provisions of the NY SAFE Act, not the firearms laws in effect up to the passage of the NY SAFE Act.

    Everyone also wants to point out that the NY SAFE Act isn't a simple "law". It is a giant, omnibus piece of legislation that amends numerous codes of New York State laws; for example, the Mental Hygiene Law, the Family Court Act, the Penal Law, the Criminal Procedure Law, etc.

    Most gun owners are solely affected by amendments made to the Penal Law.
    Last edited by MaximillianTresmond; 02-23-2013 at 10:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevelleman View Post
    Does the fact that the law was pushed through as an emergency when there was not really a sence of urgency for new laws have any place in the lawsuit
    Legal Team's response:

    Unfortunately, there is probably nothing that can be done.

    That's more of a political question. Political questions are non-justiciable.

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cress View Post
    What is the expected outcome of the case? I know this is probably difficult to answer, but is there some general idea of what is likely going to happen. Assuming that different parts of the case can be "won" or "lost" separately, are there some parts of the case that are more likely to be successful than others?
    The expected outcome, ultimately, is a win. There will be ups and downs. But everyone is confident that we're going to win.

    We're not telling anyone to break the law. Just the opposite. It has been said by James Tresmond many times that people are urged to comply with the law until we receive an injunction. That being said, consider the following factors when making your own subjective analysis of how this case will ultimately play out:

    1. The law is enormously unpopular. It is highly unlikely that the State will ever achieve significant compliance with the law. Canada, of all places, couldn't obtain significant compliance with it's long gun registry.

    2. The law is blatantly unconstitutional. In Erie County, two Democratic legislators voted in favor of the resolution against the SAFE Act because they're already feeling enormous political pressure in Democratic districts. We have been contacted by thousands of registered Democrats, Obama and Cuomo voters, and generally liberal people who are irate over the passage of this law and are threatening non-compliance. They are also threatening to vote out anyone who voted for this. (This speaks to how important it is not to see this as a single party issue. If anti-gun Democrats can be primaried with pro-gun Democrats in Democratic districts, that's a big win for us.)

    3. The US Supreme Court probably won't rule uphold the blatantly unconstitutional provisions of this law. It would violate the Court's own doctrine, and the makeup of the court will likely remain the same for the foreseeable future.

    Given these facts, do you think that this law is going to stand?

    Most would say, "No."
    Last edited by MaximillianTresmond; 02-23-2013 at 10:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington_Rick View Post
    RQ question, i know with some civil cases when they are selecting a jury, they will throw out people who have a personal bias in the case, such as "if you know or have a family member in the police force" with certain cases you get thrown out. Is there a possibility they will create the jury based completely on non gun owners? Sorry if this is a dumb question, i have very little legal/court experience.
    Boston attorney writes:

    "I'm sorry, we cannot disclose our voire dire strategy to the public. That being said, the voire dire process is designed to give us a fair jury trial."

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdover View Post
    You stated ""The law is blatantly unconstitutional"" ,and I think everyone here agress with that. What would it take, or is it even possible to bring charges on the Govornor for violation of his oath of office , or undermineing the constitution? I know that If I denied someone of thier rights its a criminal offense.
    The focus of this case is to overturn the law.

    It is upon the People of the State of New York to remove these people from office next year.

    The entire government, Assembly, Senate, and Governor is up for re-election. Charges against a governor for passing an unconstitutional law are next to impossible. This legal team will do it's job. The voters must do their job.

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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyshooter1 View Post
    So you have not applied for a TRO yet, not telling you how to run the case, we just have very little info to go on. I was thinking an injunction on the magazines, AW ban and registration was likely to be granted. Can you tell us anything about this please?
    You will be updated as soon as there is a ruling on the preliminary injunction regarding the magazines, AW ban, and registration. Keep in mind, nobody is registering their guns yet, or even CAN register their assault weapons. So, it's impossible to restrain the state from keeping a non-existent registry at this point. Does that make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobD View Post
    And if the Safe Act is struck down will it help in overturning other states gun laws?
    Quite possibly, yes.

    If we win the case at the Supreme Court, it affects similar laws in every state in America. This is why it will helpful to continue to build nationwide support and attention for our efforts. More on that soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichM View Post
    On slightly different note.

    My family members are .22 target shooters.

    We have thirteen Ruger 10/22 target rifles and they all have 'silhouette thumbhole' stocks.

    Each cost over $1,000 and now they're to be classified as 'assault weapons'.

    Is there any indication that classification will stand?
    It probably won't stand ultimately, because the 10/22 is a common use firearm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaywmustang View Post
    Could ny gun owners and dealers get financial compensation from ny for the ny safe act if we win? Dealers have lost money, individuals have been made to sell there items.
    The Plaintiffs (technically, in an Article 78 proceeding, "Petitioners") are not seeking compensation at this point. They want the law overturned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cress View Post
    I apologize if this has been already answered. Approximately how long until the case is decided? Also assuming the case is successful, will the law in question immediately be gone or will there be some sort of wait period to perhaps give law makers time to replace it with something else?
    Return date is April 25th.

    If the case is successful, NYS gun owners will have little to worry about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdover View Post
    Thats not a very comforting thought.
    It is what it is. We're not here to give you false hope.

    If you want him gone, vote him out.

    Let me give you this little bit of strategy, as an aside. We are trying to stay out of the political fray. But you know what? If you, or any of your gun owning friends are not registered to vote, and you live in a Democratic area where Republicans have a poor shot at winning, it might be a good idea to sign up to vote and register as a Democrat. Party affiliation does not determine your position on issues. But party affiliation DOES allow you to vote in primaries. In New York, you MUST be enrolled in a party to vote in that party's primary election (except in the bizarre - and I do mean bizarre - case of certain NYS Independence Party elections. Additionally, there is actually an Independence Pary, so if you register "Independence", you are NOT an unaffiliated "independent"). If more gun owners enroll as Democrats, you're doing the cause a great service because you can primary some of these anti-gun Democrats with pro-gun Democratic candidates. At the very least, you'll create a split ticket, which is how many Republican candidates win in a very blue state. Or, you just might get a pro-gun Democrat elected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaywmustang View Post
    That is very interesting about the split ticket thing.
    Is there a chance that we could get the all evil features law repealed if we win?
    Absolutely
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    www.tresmondlaw.com MaximillianTresmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Norris View Post
    JSWellness, what makes you think they aren't?
    The law was passed with the consent and support Republican Dean Skelos, a respondent in the lawsuit.

    I cannot stress this enough. If Skelos put his veto on the bill, that's it. It was over.

    Dean Skelos is as responsible for this law as Andrew Cuomo.

    So there you go. Party affiliation is just a psychological orientation, like brand recognition or favorite sports teams. But if this episode has proven everything, it's that party affiliation is meaningless. We could care less about what a person wants to call themselves. We want our rights back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridewithme38 View Post
    I understand it is impossible to know how long this case could take, because it could and most likely will be appealed all the way up to the federal supreme court....

    But.....How long would you estimate? i.e. will this be a 20yr pursuit or 6 months, or are you expecting closer to 2yrs?
    Estimated under two years to completion. That's the longest estimate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSWellness View Post
    Is there any concern a thread like this could give any "spies" on NYF an unfair advantage?
    We're careful with what we release. Everything discussed so far has been public information for a few days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyshooter1 View Post
    No these arguments are public record. Besides, if the state's lawyers are coming here for legal defensive moves, that tells me they have no idea what they are doing.
    We wouldn't be surprised if they have joined us tonight.

    As much as we believe this law is unconstitutional, we respect opposing counsel. They are required by state law to defend the constitutionality of state acts.

    The Assistant Attorney Generals have been very courteous since the beginning of this process.

    The people who should suffer the consequences of passing an unconstitutional law are those who passed it.
    Last edited by MaximillianTresmond; 02-23-2013 at 11:49 PM.

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    Thank you to everyone who participated in tonight's Question and Answer session.

    Thank you to NYFirearms.com for providing us with a venue to communicate with New York State's gun owners on the web.

    This was a good test run for a Question Time session. In the future, Question Time will be announced well in advance to allow more people to participate.

    We're going to continue to be at all of the Erie County SCOPE meetings as long as this case is progressing.

    Goodnight New York State!

    -The Legal Team at Tresmond Law

    p.s. Thank you Maximillian for keeping our message out there.

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