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Thread: PA Gun Stores will Not Sell Ammo to New York Residents?

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    General dsdmmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    doesn't that mean you CAN buy a rifle or shotgun as long as you do it in person???

    Now! I was in Cabela's in Dundee Michigan four or five years ago and wanted to buy a Long gun, so I asked what the rules were. The salesman would not sell it to me because I was from New York. {pointing to my SIL} I said "she live's in Ohio" he said "I can sell to her, then she can give you the gun as a gift". Seems to me that is the definition of a straw purchase, and he no problem with that. Maybe because we were related, but he just took my word for it?


    p.s. That quote has to be one of the longest run on setences, ever LOL
    The 4473 has a line on it where you can state the purchase is a gift for xxxxxxxxxx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    You KNOW it is BS because SARCO is many many miles from the NYS border. There are no NYS Troopers patrolling Easton, PA. If memory serves, it is at least 57 miles from the closest NY border.
    Since I was planning a day-trip to Cabellas in Hamburg, PA ... I thought I'd call and check with their hunting and ammo departments. They were completely surprised by my question. They said explicitly, we don't ask for ID on ammo purchases, They also said they're out of a lot of types of ammo (no surprise).

    I just thought I'd pass that along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyM777 View Post
    Since I was planning a day-trip to Cabellas in Hamburg, PA ... I thought I'd call and check with their hunting and ammo departments. They were completely surprised by my question. They said explicitly, we don't ask for ID on ammo purchases, They also said they're out of a lot of types of ammo (no surprise).

    I just thought I'd pass that along.
    Yeah, they were cleaned out last time I went too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKER View Post
    Eff PA....you can still buy as much ammo as you want right here...delivered to your door via the innerweb.

    Anyone who doesn't have enough to last them if this BS law sticks come next year deserves what they get.
    Been stock piling for years. Probably about 5 or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    I wonder over to Ohio, (in-laws live in Toledo) and Im going to Virginia in July, I'll see what I can find.

    Isn't Beikirch's opening a store in Pa.???? I forgot where though
    Their PA store is open. They'll sell you all the ammo you want there. It's just across the border basically follow SR36 south into PA (road name changes to 249 in pa) all the way to a stop sign at a T intersection, take a left and its right there on ur right. Knoxville PA
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisWNY View Post
    Fireworks = completely illegal in NY. Drive across the PA border and find a fireworks store, they'll sell a NY resident all the fireworks imaginable, while the PA resident standing next to you can't legally purchase most of what the fireworks store has in-stock. NYS jurisdiction ends at the border, and unless there are laws in PA forbidding the sale of ammo to NYS residents (there aren't any), ammo sales are perfectly legal for those across the border. Who's to prove you're not buying the ammo to possess and use for target shooting in PA? It's legal to bring across the border anyway, as long as you're not violating any of NY's frivolous "firearms" penal laws (such as possessing shotgun shells while having a sawed-off shotgun in your vehicle, for example).

    This is exactly why I can't understand how NYS can restrict online ammo purchases, mandating that they be shipped to a FFL for the background check. If you're buying out of State online, it should be treated exactly in the same manner as driving into another State and purchasing the ammo in person, since no other State (that I'm aware of) requires background checks for ammo purchases.
    Californa.
    Disclosure: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKER View Post
    What if you have a non resident permit for that state?
    NO NO and NO

    Handguns can only be purchased in your State of residence. Federal Law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post

    p.s. That quote has to be one of the longest run on setences, ever LOL
    In law, that's NOTHING!
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    To me it sounds like some sort of discrimination. If anyone else can buy off the street why can't a ny resident. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    "Enhance yor calm " Dr. Raymond Cocteau Demolition Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKER View Post
    That doesn't sound legal. Is it?
    I am sure something would have gotten wacky if they had actually sold it, but I picked it up before that happened.
    Watering the Tree Of Liberty is not achieved by the killing of innocents, but by preserving the lives of those innocents with your own if necessary.

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    i was just recently in new hampshire. one store Rileys in hookset had no problem selling me and the lady ammo, 10boxes per day, 5.56 for $8.50 a box, really nice people and ammo prices were very resonable. but another store right down the road "shooters" also in hookset would not, said they wanted to see my pistol permit, needless to say i told them they just lost a customer for life...really thinking hard about moving to that area as well...
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  12. #87
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    Been to Riley's many times. They sold me all the mags and ammo that I wanted to buy and didn't ask for ID.

    Shooters Outpost doesn't entirely surprise me. They're owned and operated by the same folks that own the Manchester Firing Line. They have a LOT of people from more restrictive states (read: Massachusetts) come into the range and try to pull all sorts of crap.
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    jrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by windjamer View Post
    At least 20 years ago you could buy a lever chambered for 357,so how can they refuse sale if you don't have a PP? BTW Dick's ask me for my PP AND DL last time I wanted a brick of 22, I left it on the counter and walked out.

    I haven't purchased ammo from Dick's in a while - their prices are really out of whack. (So high the guy in the gun department advised me to go to Sports Authority because their prices are better).

    Anyway... before they went nuts with prices I purchased some .45 colt at Dick's. The asked for my pistol license. Just to be annoying, I told them no - this is for a Marlin 1894 lever action rifle. They sold me the ammo without showing a license. While my Marlin is .45colt, I also have .45colt handguns. I just didn't want to show my license.

    I also recently purchased ammo out of state in a large "chain" store. No ID of any kind requested.

    While out of state stores are not bound by NY laws, they do have the right to set their own policies. If we don't like the policies, we can simply purchase elsewhere. It does end up being the store's loss. It amazes me that in this economy ANY store would be looking for a way to refuse business.

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    Who needs stringent laws when gun shops go overboard to cover their asses?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesbeat View Post
    Who needs stringent laws when gun shops go overboard to cover their asses?
    That's the point of the laws, make them vague enough that the only guarantee of not violating the law is to just go overboard and ban everything.
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    It seems a lot of resentment has developed around the country towards NYS. The whole state is being blamed for the SAFE Act and its possible influence on other states/federal gun restrictions. There has been an echo throughout the web that the gun industry should stop shipping/selling in NYS. Numerous companies in the industry have formally stated they are boycotting the state and the I guess gun shops are jumping on the bandwagon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    doesn't that mean you CAN buy a rifle or shotgun as long as you do it in person???

    Now! I was in Cabela's in Dundee Michigan four or five years ago and wanted to buy a Long gun, so I asked what the rules were. The salesman would not sell it to me because I was from New York. {pointing to my SIL} I said "she live's in Ohio" he said "I can sell to her, then she can give you the gun as a gift".
    New York law allows New York residents to purchase long guns in contiguous states only. NYPL § 265.40:

    "It shall be lawful for a person or persons residing in this state, to purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle and/or shotgun in a contiguous state, and to receive or transport such rifle and/or shotgun into this state; provided, however, such person is otherwise eligible to possess a rifle and/or shotgun under the laws of this state."

    I still can't find anything in either the federal code or PA law that specifically mandates that long gun purchases to non-residents can only be made to residents of a contiguous state.

    EDITED TO ADD: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/C...teRestrict.pdf

    NSSF has a great primer on state contingency laws. Looks like there is no such federal law, and only CA, CO, DE, IL, MA, MD, NY, OH, and OR have them. (Of course, in NJ you need a non-resident FID to purchase a long gun if you're from out-of-state.)
    Last edited by .357MagNYC; 06-09-2013 at 10:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .357MagNYC View Post
    New York law allows New York residents to purchase long guns in contiguous states only. NYPL § 265.40:

    "It shall be lawful for a person or persons residing in this state, to purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle and/or shotgun in a contiguous state, and to receive or transport such rifle and/or shotgun into this state; provided, however, such person is otherwise eligible to possess a rifle and/or shotgun under the laws of this state."

    I still can't find anything in either the federal code or PA law that specifically mandates that long gun purchases to non-residents can only be made to residents of a contiguous state.

    EDITED TO ADD: http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/C...teRestrict.pdf

    NSSF has a great primer on state contingency laws. Looks like there is no such federal law, and only CA, CO, DE, IL, MA, MD, NY, OH, and OR have them. (Of course, in NJ you need a non-resident FID to purchase a long gun if you're from out-of-state.)
    AGAIN I REPEAT
    The NYS Law does NOT prohibit a purchase in a non-contiguous State. On the contrary it is a permissive law that was enacted to ALLOW the out of State purchase of a long gun in compliance with FEDERAL LAW at the time (since repealed).
    There is no penalty for "violating" that law, and there is no prohibition in NYS law against buying a shotgun in Florida or Texas or wherever and bringing it back.

    Anything which is not PROHIBITED in law, is therefore LEGAL.

    You can not be charged with violating PL 265.40. There is no such charge. It is a PERMISSIVE law. NOT a prohibition. They could repeal it tomorrow (and should actually) and there would be no effect whatsoever. It does not prohibit anything.

    It would be as if they passed a law that makes it "legal to drive a motor vehicle on a public highway". That would not make it illegal to drive a car in a parking lot. On it's own, it would not make it illegal to drive a truck on the highway. In fact, it would not make any behavior of any kind illegal.

    How about a law that states: " A licensed driver may operate a passenger car". Absent a law prohibiting an UNLICENSED driver from operating a car, it would be meaningless.

    That is the situation here. There WAS a FEDERAL LAW prohibiting a resident of a State from buying a long gun in another State, UNLESS the State passed a law to make it legal to do so. NY passed such a law. It was a "pro gun" law.

    The Federal Law is gone. The State law is now meaningless, there is no Federal or State prohibition against buying a long gun out of State.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .357MagNYC View Post
    Any chance you could provide the name of that shop? I'd much rather support a principled small business that some mega-chain like walmart.
    He is 200 miles from you just outside Susquehanna PA. P/M me if you think you might be in our location, I will give you his info. I don't want to post it and have a hundred coffee hounds emptying the coffee pot.LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    AGAIN I REPEAT
    The NYS Law does NOT prohibit a purchase in a non-contiguous State. On the contrary it is a permissive law that was enacted to ALLOW the out of State purchase of a long gun in compliance with FEDERAL LAW at the time (since repealed).
    There is no penalty for "violating" that law, and there is no prohibition in NYS law against buying a shotgun in Florida or Texas or wherever and bringing it back.

    Anything which is not PROHIBITED in law, is therefore LEGAL.

    You can not be charged with violating PL 265.40. There is no such charge. It is a PERMISSIVE law. NOT a prohibition. They could repeal it tomorrow (and should actually) and there would be no effect whatsoever. It does not prohibit anything.

    It would be as if they passed a law that makes it "legal to drive a motor vehicle on a public highway". That would not make it illegal to drive a car in a parking lot. On it's own, it would not make it illegal to drive a truck on the highway. In fact, it would not make any behavior of any kind illegal.

    How about a law that states: " A licensed driver may operate a passenger car". Absent a law prohibiting an UNLICENSED driver from operating a car, it would be meaningless.

    That is the situation here. There WAS a FEDERAL LAW prohibiting a resident of a State from buying a long gun in another State, UNLESS the State passed a law to make it legal to do so. NY passed such a law. It was a "pro gun" law.

    The Federal Law is gone. The State law is now meaningless, there is no Federal or State prohibition against buying a long gun out of State.
    I would also like to add that these are the rules for obtaining a firearms out of state.

    Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF

    basically, everything has to go thru a dealer and no where does it say that a gun you buy has to be legal in your home state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    AGAIN I REPEAT
    The NYS Law does NOT prohibit a purchase in a non-contiguous State. On the contrary it is a permissive law that was enacted to ALLOW the out of State purchase of a long gun in compliance with FEDERAL LAW at the time (since repealed).
    There is no penalty for "violating" that law, and there is no prohibition in NYS law against buying a shotgun in Florida or Texas or wherever and bringing it back.
    Thanks for clearing that up. Will any FFL's in non-contiguous states actually sell to NY residents, though? It seems everyone is interpreting § 265.40 as a prohibition against sales in non-contiguous states. I'll see if I can dig up some caselaw on this later--very interesting. Again, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayKnobs View Post
    I would also like to add that these are the rules for obtaining a firearms out of state.

    Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF

    basically, everything has to go thru a dealer and no where does it say that a gun you buy has to be legal in your home state.

    Yes, a dealer has to be on one end of the transaction. You either buy from a dealer, or receive from an individual through a local dealer.

    However, it does state you must be legal in your home state (as well as the originating state):

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
    18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30
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    If the gun shop in the OP's original post was indeed visited by state police , assuming Pa. state police, but, any police, and there is no law restricting the sale of ammo to NY residents. Who unleashed this unlawful coercion by a state law enforcement agency? That should be looked into! All you NY ex-patriots now residing there should demand an investigation into this unlawful abuse of power. Heck all residents should demand an investigation! Your next!
    Robin

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Yes, a dealer has to be on one end of the transaction. You either buy from a dealer, or receive from an individual through a local dealer.

    However, it does state you must be legal in your home state (as well as the originating state):
    Hmmm, I have heard of people buying AW's pre-safe act in PA and modifying them to be NY legal before bringing them home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayKnobs View Post
    Hmmm, I have heard of people buying AW's pre-safe act in PA and modifying them to be NY legal before bringing them home.

    I guess, technically, that would be okay. The dealer might get in trouble with the feds - but then, no violation was committed if the person modified the gun prior to crossing the state line. They were legal in PA when they bought it and legal in NY when they crossed the border.

    I remember being in Cabela's pre-SAFE and looking at ARs. They did not have anything NY compliant so I didn't bother to ask. The person and I discussed what constituted NY compliant - he didn't say he would not sell me one, but didn't say he would either. Interesting question. I would still think a dealer would not want to deal with the heat of selling something when they know it is illegal where you claim to be bringing it, or trusting you to make it legal.

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