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  1. #76
    General Airborneguy's Avatar
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    I never gave a crap enough to lie. That's really what it comes down to in my opinion. I don't live near where I work, never have. I'm not risking my hide or pay check to keep people off the street if the prosecutor can't make their case.
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  2. #77
    General Airborneguy's Avatar
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    And let's be real if we're being honest here...

    Many a prosecutor has asked a cop or witness to "remember" something that they don't "recall". The whole "testilying" phenomenon seems to fall on the shoulders of those in the box, when in my experience, I've been asked more times than not to "clarify" a point when my honest recollection doesn't help the DA make their case. "You're not helping me here officer," is a very common thing for prosecutors to say. Funny, I don't recall ever being told that was a part of my job.

    It is flat wrong to state that cops are overly concerned with convictions in criminal court when in fact it is the prosecutors whose careers are based on convictions. Not a single time have I been asked by a member of my department what the outcome of my trials have been. Only prosecutors answer for aquittals.
    "Powder and artillery are the most efficacious, sure, and infallibly conciliatory measures we can adopt."
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
    He is actually correct though. Judges are not a part of the handgun process downstate.
    And they are upstate. So to most of us on the forum he is actually incorrect.
    "If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"
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  5. #79
    General Airborneguy's Avatar
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    But he did say he was talking about the city, Nassau and Suffolk. I have to defend him on this one.
    "Powder and artillery are the most efficacious, sure, and infallibly conciliatory measures we can adopt."
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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
    But he did say he was talking about the city, Nassau and Suffolk. I have to defend him on this one.

    I didn't read the entire thread. The former ADA said he was talking about downstate or the former court officer said that? All I know is the judge signed my permit. Without that signature I don't have a permit.

    "If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"
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  7. #81
    General scosgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
    But he did say he was talking about the city, Nassau and Suffolk. I have to defend him on this one.
    Just to put this to rest, there are over 104,000 permits in Nassau and Suffolk alone. The distinction is in the Penal Law, and every lawyer knows that.
    So when he stated that a restriction is legal because a permit is issued based on a Court Order, that is not true for what may be the majority of permits in this State.

    And the reason that the PC gets away with it is good old "Case Law", because some Judge says: "He can do that".

    So we have two different sets of rules for obtaining a permit (really three, since in NYC the rule is NO SOUP FOR YOU). If someone comes here as a lawyer to answer questions, the answers should at least try to be complete. And that is all I was saying.

  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post

    So we have two different sets of rules for obtaining a permit (really three, since in NYC the rule is NO SOUP FOR YOU). If someone comes here as a lawyer to answer questions, the answers should at least try to be complete. And that is all I was saying.
    When you put it that way it sounds much less antagonistic and makes sense. Maybe I read the tone of the earlier post wrong?
    "If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"
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  9. #83
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    Lawyers give answers?

  10. #84
    General scosgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Rooster View Post
    Lawyers give answers?
    For a fee

  11. #85
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    Ok, then a question, how is it legal for a non-judge to issue permits and restrictions. This is new to many of us on this forum because in most places throughout the State, we deal with Judges only. There are no administrators involved in our process.

    Same with amendments to our Permits, some Counties are Judge issued and some are Permit Office issued. In Erie County, it takes about five minutes and five bucks, I have heard in many Counties it can take weeks.

    Are both of these legal?

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun_slinger_boy
    ]Many think the SAFEACT is going to "spread" to other states. I personally think it's quite the opposite. From a legal standpoint what do you think the odds are of these types of laws being passed in other states (in the near future)?

    On a side note I think your answers were very concise and helpful. They reinforce my opinion that NY is a complete loss and the only way to beat the unsafe act is to beat feet.
    Thanks! I’m glad my answers could give you some help. The purpose of this thread was to give some people insight into what goes on in a prosecutor’s office.

    Your question requires more political analysis than legal analysis. Whether these laws pass depends on the future political climate in other states. Notwithstanding research design issues, public opinion polling is the best predictor of the types of issues voted on in state houses.

    I think it is likely that gun control laws which do not affect the “core” of the Second Amendment are likely to be upheld, because they will pass rational basis review and intermediate scrutiny. Conversely, laws which criminalize basic gun ownership will fail in the courts, if not the state houses. Heller may be a controversial decision, but not more so than Roe v. Wade. Both are the law of the land and don’t expect either to be reversed in your lifetime.

    Future case law will need to address the contours of the Second Amendment’s core. That’s not something Heller – or McDonald – did. At minimum, the core of the Second Amendment right applies to self-defense within the home. Some state courts (like Florida) have ruled that it extends outward from the house in some sense, but that concealed carry licensing is OK if unlicensed carry is OK.

    You can rest assured that blanket prohibitions on gun ownership are likely never going to pass, not even in New York State. Heller and McDonald have taken blanket prohibitions on handgun ownership off the table. Likewise, “traditional” shotguns and rifles are never going to be banned. No gun control state has done that. Even gun control advocates own those. The real concern here is whether states can politicize certain guns for how they look, declare them “assault weapons”, and criminalize their ownership or sale.

    Gun rights law is as new a body of law as gay rights law. If the federal courts continue their libertarian attitude toward civil rights, I think you have good things to look forward to. Even in New York. Keep the faith!

  13. #87
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    I’m sorry if my initial answer to the handgun restriction question wasn’t clear enough. Judges upstate treat the handgun licensing process as a court order. I am quite familiar with the Appellate Division, Court of Appeals, and the attorneys that work there. Since courts rarely, if ever, restrict the inherent powers of the court, it is highly unlikely that any appellate court would issue a decision that would affect the powers of courts in so many counties upstate.

    You certainly are welcome to your own opinion. Remember that most appellate decisions are formulated and issued with a heavy ex-ante rather than ex-post ex-post bias that is to say, the Appellate Division and Court of Appeals look to what kind of effect their decisions will affect future situations rather than simply looking to correcting past errors.

    Stated in clearest terms possible: Since many judges are involved in the permitting process upstate and have inherent powers to place conditions on their rulings, it is highly unlikely that the Court of Appeals would liminate the restrictions placed on licensing because doing so would limit the inherent powers of the court.

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrod
    Welcome to the forum BTW WHAT KIND OF GUNS DO YOU. SHOOT?


    ​Thanks for the welcome! I shoot all kinds of guns. My favorite gun is the Pennsylvania Long Rifle. My ancestors were in the American revolution. I'm also a big fan of the M1A and M1 Garand.

  15. #89
    General thecelt's Avatar
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    Delete, dead issue
    Last edited by thecelt; 07-21-2015 at 07:14 PM.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace"
    All statements and opinions made here are for discussion purposes only, and not meant to promote any illegal behavior or activity.

  16. #90
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    Given the abysmal compliance rate regarding "Assault Weapon" registrations under the so called "SAFE Act", (a.k.a. civil disobediance), why can't a class action suit be brought against the State of New York citing the Ninth amendment as grounds for said suit?

    My contention would be that the obstruction of our civil rights as enshrined in the 2A, and the 9A, supercede the arguably discredited (see '94 AWB) theory that scary looking guns are a contributor to increased crime rates, and a higher threat to public safety. I know this is somewhat out of the realm of "as a former prosecutor" but I'd like to know your thoughts. More bluntly, how to we, as an oppressed minority, fight back effectively?
    "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson
    “Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God.” - Benjamin Franklin
    "If a lefty says it, it's a lie" - Me

  17. #91
    Major Cureforcancer's Avatar
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    2A

    We all know the current NY Governor is a crook in your opinion what can PB possibly make stick in federal court?
    "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
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  18. #92
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    I have a question.

    The 2a to the US Constitution states:

    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    New york Civil rights law, article 2, section 4 states:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.
    Found here:
    N.Y. CVR. LAW § 4 : NY Code - Section 4: Right to keep and bear arms

    We know the state already violates the US Constitution, so how does this article of the civil rights law play into the equation?

    Obviously we have a difference of "shall not" , and "cannot" be infringed (whats the legal difference between those words?).

    In short, since the state ignores the US Constitution, can someone arrested for keeping an unregistered firearm in their home use the NY civil rights law, article 2, section 4 as a legal defense, and would it hold water?

    A 2nd question...

    Can the equal protection clause of the US Constitution, and the NY Civil Rights Code be used as a justifiable reason to fight the permitting system in NY? To piggy back the issue of permit restrictions; some residents of the state are issued unrestricted, while other law abiding residents (mostly in southern counties) can only get restricted permits. As residents of the same state, are we not entitled to the same rights?
    Last edited by thecelt; 07-21-2015 at 06:44 PM.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace"
    All statements and opinions made here are for discussion purposes only, and not meant to promote any illegal behavior or activity.

  19. #93
    General scosgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goperfect View Post
    Ok, then a question, how is it legal for a non-judge to issue permits and restrictions. This is new to many of us on this forum because in most places throughout the State, we deal with Judges only. There are no administrators involved in our process.

    Same with amendments to our Permits, some Counties are Judge issued and some are Permit Office issued. In Erie County, it takes about five minutes and five bucks, I have heard in many Counties it can take weeks.

    Are both of these legal?
    THAT was exactly my point. We understand that Judges give each other discretion on legal decisions, even when the law says otherwise. But what gives a political appointee such discretion?

  20. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Ballistics View Post
    Does not make 2A's comments incorrect, however, which he claimed. It was pretty apparent that 2A was discussing upstate as eveyone knows that your system down there is F'd up and defies description, anyway.
    Perhaps I could have worded my question in such a way as to eliminate the downstate laws,regulations, rules or whatever in the world exists there. I never give the proceedings down that way a thought except for when I worry about what is there sneaking into where I live. And I do believe it is happening.
    Don't take my comment personally if you live south of the big bridge. I don't know how or why you do it. As my 87 Y/O neighbor here in Newfoundland would say, "bless your little titty's.
    For my purposes the question was answered sufficiently.
    I'm the guy who could catch VD from a virgin.

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  21. #95
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    Welcome to the forum. Can you comment on the advise given by this attorney and the sign he recommends using at a traffic stop or checkpoint?
    New York DWI | Fair DUI

  22. #96
    General scosgt's Avatar
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    Good luck with that.
    Do it and post some video so we can all laugh as you are dragged away in cuffs.

  23. #97
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    I lost track, who's thread was this anyway?

  24. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    Good luck with that.
    Do it and post some video so we can all laugh as you are dragged away in cuffs.
    I don't doubt that this would be the result. Let's hear what the DA has to say.

  25. #99
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    ^wondering same
    here is my question as it's simple and there are thousands of opinions. Also a preamble **i am not anti police**. I was advised by an attorney to never talk with the police or DA at all, just lawyer up. This advise was not from my attorney but from a lawyer. "Guilty or innocent it's irrelevant, it's the semantics and what they think you say that matters." -lawyer. Do you agree or disagree with that line of thought?
    Second question which requires no real detail, is it humanly possible to fix the legal system and fix the police, legal relationship We have now?

    edit: we do need to lighten this up, any funny cases? Like fit for TV hysterical? I know the lt. Of the fd I was in smacked a cop with a taco while in uniform (and drunk) and was arrested. That was hysterical, assault by taco. He never loved it down and never will.
    Last edited by Silverpathic; 07-22-2015 at 07:23 AM.

  26. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    Actually, this is NOT a correct or complete answer. You must be upstate.

    In Nassau and Suffolk Counties as well as NYC, the Police Commissioner is the issuing officer, NOT a JUDGE. There is no COURT ORDER. (In eastern Suffolk it is the Sheriff, before someone jumps me).

    So the question there would be framed as:

    How can an appointed administrator, who has no statutory power to interpret laws, institute restrictions on a State permit issued according to law.

    Hint: I already know the answer!
    We have 62 counties and the PP is granted with approximately 30 different configurations. Can you say Arbitrary and capricious? Your then have 50 States. and only NY does what Sullivan does. No other state make you register each and every handgun you own on a card that you carry in your wallet, and now some rifles too.
    Common sense does not involve citizen disarmament. Responsible solutions do not disarm the victim pool. And support for the Second Amendment does not advocate for infringements. Get out of my face.

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