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Thread: Legal Question: Traveling Across NYS with 5 or more Firearms is a Class D Felony??

  1. #1
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    Default Legal Question: Traveling Across NYS with 5 or more Firearms is a Class D Felony??

    Section 265.03 of the NYS PL states:

    "Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony.

    S 265.03 Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree when:
    (1) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, such person:
    (a) possesses a machine-gun; or
    (b) possesses a loaded firearm; or
    (c) possesses a disguised gun; or
    (2) such person possesses five or more firearms; or
    (3) such person possesses any loaded firearm. Such possession shall
    not, except as provided in subdivision one or seven of section 265.02 of
    this article, constitute a violation of this subdivision if such
    possession takes place in such person's home or place of business."

    Sorry, though I took penal law courses back in '95, I am having trouble interpreting this section...

    Q: If I am traveling across NYS, and I have 5 firearms, which I own, are listed on my unrestricted CCW permit, and one is on my person and 4 are in a locked gun case, am I committing a Class D Felony???

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Captain tripwirez's Avatar
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    edit....misread what was typed
    Last edited by tripwirez; 03-01-2013 at 01:35 AM.
    cgrutt and greenner like this.
    If you've got them by the balls their hearts andminds will follow.

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    General Gunner57's Avatar
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    Frank - this has been dealt with MANY times here. The definition of firearm is the key.
    Spydermonkey likes this.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one."
    Cesare Beccaria, Essay on Crimes and Punishments, 1764

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    No

    unless
    "A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree when:
    (1) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, such person:"
    SterlingRex likes this.

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    General RayKnobs's Avatar
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    Go to the end of the chapter and read the exemptions. It says that those charges do not apply if the firearm is legally possessed.

    ALWAYS READ THE EXEMPTIONS

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    As Gunner stated, read the law more carefully, specifically the definition of a "firearm". A "firearm" in the context of NYS penal law is already illegal to begin with. A "firearm" could be an unregistered pistol, a sawed-off shotgun, etc.
    NYS/FL CCW
    --------------------------------------
    Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of those who threaten to destroy it.



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    General RayKnobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisWNY View Post
    As Gunner stated, read the law more carefully, specifically the definition of a "firearm". A "firearm" in the context of NYS penal law is already illegal to begin with. A "firearm" could be an unregistered pistol, a sawed-off shotgun, etc.
    actually that's not what the definition says, you are kinda right

    3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.
    Last edited by RayKnobs; 02-28-2013 at 04:26 PM.

  8. #8
    General RayKnobs's Avatar
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    You need to go down:

    S 265.20 Exemptions. a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
    The OP posted 265.03

    3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter or possession of a weapon as defined in paragraph (e) or (f) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this article which is registered pursuant to paragraph (a) of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter or is included on an amended license issued pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter. In the event such license is revoked, other than because such licensee is no longer permitted to possess a firearm, rifle or shotgun under federal or state law, information sufficient to satisfy the requirements of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter, shall be transmitted by the licensing officer to the state police, in a form as determined by the superintendent of state police. Such transmission shall constitute a valid registration under such section. Further provided, notwithstanding any other section of this title, a failure to register such weapon by an individual who possesses such weapon before the enactment of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which amended this paragraph and may so lawfully possess it thereafter upon registration, shall only be subject to punishment pursuant to paragraph (c) of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter; provided, that such a license or registration shall not preclude a conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section 265.01 of this article or section 265.01-a of this article.
    That lets you own the pistol

    The rifle with a barrel over 16" and a shotgun with a barrel over 18" are not "firearms"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    No

    unless
    "A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree when:
    (1) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, such person:"
    This is 1 of 3 parts to this section though...

    I read it as
    (1) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, such person:
    (a) possesses a machine-gun; or
    (b) possesses a loaded firearm; or
    (c) possesses a disguised gun; or

    (2) such person possesses five or more firearms; or

    (3) such person possesses any loaded firearm. Such possession shall
    not, except as provided in subdivision one or seven of section 265.02 of
    this article, constitute a violation of this subdivision if such
    possession takes place in such person's home or place of business."

    ...My interpretation (and the reason I asked the question) is that the Part 1 defines itself and sub-parts a, b, and c. and that Part 2 OR Part 3 are independent of the wording of Part 1, such that each of the 3 Parts defines the class D felony in this section... no?

    Part 2 doesn't appear to be a "Sub-part" to part one, but rather a definition of what is considered to be a violation of Section 265.03 unto itself, as does Part 3... otherwise, wouldn't Part 2 and Part 3 be (d) and (e), respectively, under Part 1??

    Am I misunderstanding the way this should be read?
    Last edited by FrankHill73; 03-01-2013 at 01:22 AM. Reason: clarification the subject is still open for OP

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    I'm still looking for clarification on this section... Anyone else care to weigh in or point me to another thread with a clear answer on transporting firearms I own across NYS?

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    Transportation by Motor Vehicle: The General Rule

    In most states, personally-owned firearms may be transported legally if they are unloaded, cased, and locked in the automobile trunk. As an additional precaution, firearms may be disassembled and separated from ammunition.
    The exceptions to this rule deal mainly with interstate transportation of handguns. The myriad and conflicting legal requirements for firearm transportation through the states make caution the key for travelers.
    If you travel with a trailer or camper that is hauled by an automobile, it is advisable to transport the firearms unloaded, cased and locked in the automobile trunk. If your vehicle is of the type in which driving and living spaces are not separated, the problem becomes one of access. If the firearm, including handguns, rifles or shotguns, is carried on or about the person, or placed in the camper where it is readily accessible to the driver or any passenger, state and local laws dealing with concealed carrying of firearms may come into play. It is suggested, therefore, that the firearm be transported unloaded, cased, and placed in a locked rear compartment of the camper or mobile home, inaccessible to the driver or passenger.
    Once you reach your destination, the state or, in some areas, municipal law, will control the ownership, possession, and transportation of your firearms.
    Note:Generally, when a mobile home is readily mobile, i.e., when one can simply start its engine or the engine of its towing vehicle and drive away---even if it is capable of being used as a home--- a mobile home is considered a vehicle. If a mobile home is not mobile, i.e., it does not have an engine, or is not attached to a towing vehicle, and is on blocks, permanently connected to utilities, it is considered a house, not a vehicle.

    Interstate Transportation of Firearms

    federal law beats state law.

  12. #12
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    Ha, ha. what firearms are you referring to? Pistols on your permit are exempt. Shotgun or rifle would not be a firearm unless cut below minimum overall length. So unless you're intending to do harm to another or your pistols are not listed on your license or your rifles/shotguns are cut below minimum overall length, I'd say you should be good to go....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrutt View Post
    Ha, ha. what firearms are you referring to? Pistols on your permit are exempt. Shotgun or rifle would not be a firearm unless cut below minimum overall length. So unless you're intending to do harm to another or your pistols are not listed on your license or your rifles/shotguns are cut below minimum overall length, I'd say you should be good to go....
    The plan is to transport 4 pistols and 1 shotgun, in state, not through NYC, Buffalo, or Albany, for use in target practice at my destination. I own the 4 pistols and they are all listed on my unrestricted CCW permit. I will be driving a pickup with a covered bed but with no backseat storage for the case I'll be using.

  14. #14
    General cgrutt's Avatar
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    Don't use them to commit any crimes and you're good to go. If the pistols are registered to you they are exempt from this provision. Assuming the shotgun is over 28" overall it is NOT a firearm under the law. Don't know what else to say but carry on and have yourself good day.

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    Corporal CnRnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrutt View Post
    Don't use them to commit any crimes and you're good to go. If the pistols are registered to you they are exempt from this provision. Assuming the shotgun is over 28" overall it is NOT a firearm under the law. Don't know what else to say but carry on and have yourself good day.
    This is all good but it's 26" for the OAL of long guns.

  16. #16
    General cgrutt's Avatar
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    Shot gun is 28 no?

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    Sorry my bad. Barrel needs to be 2" longer than rifle. 26 is good to go.

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    General RayKnobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankHill73 View Post
    The plan is to transport 4 pistols and 1 shotgun, in state, not through NYC, Buffalo, or Albany, for use in target practice at my destination. I own the 4 pistols and they are all listed on my unrestricted CCW permit. I will be driving a pickup with a covered bed but with no backseat storage for the case I'll be using.
    I don't see what the problem is? You could put 100 shotguns and pistols in your truck if you want.

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    handguns on permits and not furearms



    in nys all we consider a firearm is a non registered firearm, assualt weapons under new law, sbr,sbs, all in all mostly just assualt rifles and weapons and illegal guns are considered firearms

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