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Thread: Police Kill Homeless Man (Caught On Tape)

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by c1mtcase View Post
    So he deserved what he got right?
    That's not what I said. its media hype to say it was over a ten dollar ticket however.

    Put yourself in the shooter's shoes for second. You are there to back up the less than lethal guys who are going to make the arrest. The guy is shouting threats to kill and is clearly an emotionally disturbed person who is a danger to others. Flash bang goes off. The dog goes toward the guy. The canine handler moves forward and crouches down in front of the guy who is holding a knife and is known to assault officers. And the guy with the knife moves. I don't know if it was to get on the ground, or flee but he did lift the knife at the dog and lifted it again and took a step forward before his body started to turn during/after the first shot. He turned during/ after the first shot. look at it again. The knife was moving forward. Listen for the first shot. My sound driver on my computer has a slight delay but listen for the first shot. pause it and look where everyone is at the 54-55 second mark. Look at what he does at the 52-53 mark. And know that its not usually an instant stop if you do shoot.

    The canine officer moved in too fast. Maybe it was to stop the dog from mauling the man. Or to protect the dog. Either way, he should not have gotten that close until the guy dropped the knife.

    Either way, good shoot or not. It was not just to shoot a guy over a ten dollar ticket as the media claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Temporaryscars View Post
    So because there's a countersuit, then obviously she was lying to begin with? lol Besides, the example you cite had absolutely nothing to do with official police conduct...so even if you're right, the fact that they're police officers is completely irrelevant. It could be two auto mechanics going through the same thing.

    Wait...what? Why would you call them cowards to begin with? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that since you've worded it so horribly, but it almost sounds downright menacing and doesn't help your case much.

    What you're doing here is compromising your own morality by making flimsy excuses in order to sugarcoat what is an obvious problem in one of this country's biggest institutions, one that you're a part of. I think it's time you were honest with yourself. When you try to justify these demonstrably disgusting acts, you become part of the problem. You keep YOUR institution in the terrible state it's in. Wouldn't it be easier to actually take a stand and make said institution better, rather than just constantly tread water by trying to polish a turd?



    No joke. His dishonesty is astounding and only furthers to degrade the very thing he's trying to champion.
    Not at all. I want to hear both sides and the media saying its just over a ten dollar ticket is BS and inflammatory. I am not claiming its a good shoot or not. I am saying its more to it than the media source is stating.

    as far as dishonesty, I have seen some of these so called whistle blowers who are far from what they have claimed in reality. I know some whistle blowers who were right on the money. You cite some claims that you have no idea what that person was really like but what they claimed.

    The example i cite is one where I could show in print how bad it seems when one person is the one telling the story until you can hear the other side. That is especially true in police misconduct cases where the officer is not allowed to present his side. The only reason in the case I cited you could hear the sgt side is because he retired. Otherwise, he could not tell his side to the public. That is my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMSNYDER View Post
    They used lethal force when they had other means. They shot him with bean bags after he was killed. The 2 knives looked like 3" maybe. The one officer fired into the dirt in front of him I think. What the ****.
    That I can agree with. The canine officer should have never gotten that close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willjr75 View Post
    Truebeliever would defend a cop to the end no matter what the circumstances. Read his posts in other threads. You can't in good conscience say that guy was a threat to the officers.
    I can say that the cainine officer made the guy a threat. The dog came at him and the guy used the knife as a threat against the dog. Its just a dog. Sorry but true. The handler came in. He got too close. He should have he stayed back,.

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebeliever2013 View Post
    Again, the media disservice. It wasn't over a ticket. He was definitely emotionally disturbed and a danger by the other reports.
    Do you have a diffrent link to back your claim or is it just your opinion? My opinion was based on the article and video provided in the link however i am fully aware of on occasion media bias.
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    The whole thing is BS they should not have been within 20 yards of him....what was the immediate danger that require this action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebeliever2013 View Post
    The guy is shouting threats to kill and is clearly an emotionally disturbed person who is a danger to others.
    So the general policy of all police departments is to shoot and kill an emotionally disturbed person instead of using less lethal methods to capture him and get him help. I guess killing an EDP is cheaper than putting them in some state run program to help them. This is just another example of the turning of America into a police state. Shoot to kill seems to be the new motto of PD's across America no matter what the severity of the crime is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cureforcancer View Post
    Do you have a diffrent link to back your claim or is it just your opinion? My opinion was based on the article and video provided in the link however i am fully aware of on occasion media bias.
    APD: Officer involved shooting was justified | Albuquerque News & Weather | Abq, Rio Rancho, Santa Fe, NM | krqe.com

    Man killed in foothills officer-involved shooting had long criminal history | Albuquerque News - KOAT Home

    Video: Camper turning from officers when shot | ABQJournal Online

    According to one article, they were talking with him for hours and he had threatened them and threw rocks at the cops as well before the video part of the incident and was clearly an emotionally disturbed person and his history of assaults on officers was transmitted over the radio to the officers.

    I am not saying its a good shoot but doesn't some media make it seem like they just met this "camper" and then got into a shooting a minute or two later.
    Last edited by truebeliever2013; 03-22-2014 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebeliever2013 View Post
    I can say that the cainine officer made the guy a threat. The dog came at him and the guy used the knife as a threat against the dog. Its just a dog. Sorry but true. The handler came in. He got too close. He should have he stayed back,.
    So I guess a better title would be MENTALLY ILL MAN KILLED BECAUSE OF CANINE OFFICER'S MISTAKE!!!
    But if they admitted that how could the chief say it was a good shoot?????
    Officer makes a mistake getting a mentally ill man killed and what happens? He gets a paid vacation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmroadster View Post
    So I guess a better title would be MENTALLY ILL MAN KILLED BECAUSE OF CANINE OFFICER'S MISTAKE!!!
    But if they admitted that how could the chief say it was a good shoot?????
    Officer makes a mistake getting a mentally ill man killed and what happens? He gets a paid vacation!
    I don't know if the first shooter was "wrong". It could have been the taser shotgun round that the chief said was fired. The other shots could have been contagious fire.

    The decision to pull the trigger and lethal force could have been when the shooter saw the guy move forward with the knife. The sound of the shot comes before the victim actually turns away.



    But the canine officer definitely was wrong getting that close.

    And yes, that title would have been better.
    It better than "man killed over a 10 dollar ticket"
    Last edited by truebeliever2013; 03-22-2014 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by truebeliever2013 View Post
    APD: Officer involved shooting was justified | Albuquerque News & Weather | Abq, Rio Rancho, Santa Fe, NM | krqe.com

    Man killed in foothills officer-involved shooting had long criminal history | Albuquerque News - KOAT Home

    Video: Camper turning from officers when shot | ABQJournal Online

    According to one article, they were talking with him for hours and he had threatened them and threw rocks at the cops as well before the video part of the incident and was clearly an emotionally disturbed person and his history of assaults on officers was transmitted over the radio to the officers.

    I am not saying its a good shoot but doesn't some media make it seem like they just met this "camper" and then got into a shooting a minute or two later.
    This only proves my previous post. Your links only show the SAME circumstances just with more detail. He was already known to the PD as being mentally unstable. They were prepeared to take him "in" this time hence some of their non lethal equipment and a canine yet fired on him when he turned. "This is the first time this department releases one of thier videos"......think about that.....especially since one of their officers that was NOT supposed to even have a weapon fired on this deranged man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmroadster View Post
    So I guess a better title would be MENTALLY ILL MAN KILLED BECAUSE OF CANINE OFFICER'S MISTAKE!!!
    But if they admitted that how could the chief say it was a good shoot?????
    Officer makes a mistake getting a mentally ill man killed and what happens? He gets a paid vacation!
    Each officer is an individual and makes decisions based on what's in front of them. It could be a good shoot for an individual but as a group they were wrong.

    For example, the diallo shooting. Even the Rev Al Sharpton admitted that PO Boss and Murphy were" less culpable". What actions they took were correct by what their perceptions told them. They heard Sean carrol yell "gun", saw a gun blast, McMellon falling backward as if he was shot and they felt bullets fly past their heads and Murphy got a bullet hole in his pants leg. And he was behind the other three officers. He did not know it was ricochets from the NYPD's full metal jacket rounds.
    It was the proper action by those two officers to return fire at someone who they reasonably thought was shooting at them. Sean Carroll's actions ,on the other hand,can be put into question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cureforcancer View Post
    This only proves my previous post. Your links only show the SAME circumstances just with more detail. He was already known to the PD as being mentally unstable. They were prepeared to take him "in" this time hence some of their non lethal equipment and a canine yet fired on him when he turned. "This is the first time this department releases one of thier videos"......think about that.....especially since one of their officers that was NOT supposed to even have a weapon fired on this deranged man.
    But it is that extra detail that makes a difference.

    He was initially fired not to have a weapon because of an incident that did not involve force. He was working a second job on company time. Did his job status change with approval of his current department? If so, he was good to go.

    And I have no idea why a flash bang was used at all.

    Again , the inital take on the story by the media was he was shot just for camping

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
    It looked like they shot as he was turning his back towards them. If that was me or you doing the shooting we wouldn't be on paid leave. Our asses would be sitting in jail. The only difference between the criminals and the homeless man is the badges.
    That and the AR-15's filled with hollow points.

    I'm usually a supporter of law enforcement, but I think it's time that certain departments get a little gun control of their own. Rifles are for when someone else is shooting back at you, not something to be pulled out and paraded around the moment an order comes out. They riddled the neighborhood where the Boston bomber was hiding in that boat for no reason whatsoever, I think it's time the 'salt weapons and 30 round clipazines went back into the police armory gun rack until there's a real reason for them to come out.

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    I swear some people look forward to the day they'll be able to shoot someone and be able to call it self defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benellinut View Post
    I swear some people look forward to the day they'll be able to shoot someone and be able to call it self defense.
    "He turned away, clearly going for a rocket launcher"
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    What a bunch of cowards. After he is shot multiple times they bean bag him and let the dog loose. I'm sorry but grow a pair or pick another profession. You could have walked up and stepped on his hand. The calmness in their voices after just committing a homicide is disturbing. Three coward sociopaths.

    "Sandy was hired by APD in 2007 after he was fired by New Mexico State Police over a scandal. He was accused of fraud and collecting payment for private security work while on the clock for State Police.

    When APD hired Sandy, they claimed he would be a civilian employee and he wouldn’t have a gun or a badge."

    What is with dept's hiring complete S$it birds that were fired from other dept's?


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    Quote Originally Posted by truebeliever2013 View Post
    I can say that the cainine officer made the guy a threat. The dog came at him and the guy used the knife as a threat against the dog. Its just a dog. Sorry but true. The handler came in. He got too close. He should have he stayed back,.

    That's pretty weak. The man was struck several times and bleeding out . He releasing the K9 for what purpose? safety? there are 3 men armed with rifles and sidearms and flash bangs against a vagrant shot six times at close range.

    POLICE: Get your hands up!
    suspect: I cant move
    POLICE: Get your hands up!
    Suspect : Please don't hurt me I cant move
    POLICE: Bean bag em
    (Police fire three times , no effect)
    (releases K9, NO effect )
    (Suspect makes death rattle appears to pass, unknown at this time)


    The training law enforcement is getting today is to combat related . I think its starting to cross the line .At some point the training seems to have gone from safely disarming drunks and vagrants to assuming the guy has a chest vest or backpack of explosives , I can see soldiers in Afghanistan operating this way because they are in a war zone were the enemy wears no uniform . But this is New Mexico USA.

    I don't like what Im seeing here.
    Last edited by Holdover; 03-22-2014 at 11:01 PM.
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    I'm not gonna Monday morning quarterback the officer's decisions. But at first glance - the shooting doesn't appear to be a good one. This one should, at minimum, be investigated by the state police and go to the grand jury.

    The deceased was already known to police as someone with severe mental illness - so it shouldn't be a surprise that he was gonna be difficult to deal with in the first place (sounds like they negotiated with him for hours prior to this). Police officers need better training on dealing with these types of folks. Of course they're not going to instantly comply with demands being screamed at them - for starters, they don't process information the same way we do.

    On the other hand - you don't have a stand-off with a mentally ill guy with a pocket knife for hours on end over a $10 ticket. Write the ticket, place it on the ground, use a rock for paperweight - and if he doesn't show up to court, issue a bench warrant. If it was necessary to remove him from the area - sure, pepper ball, taser, whatever it takes if he resists - especially if he has a pocket knife in his hand. But from pictures that were taken earlier - there's a lot of cops there with weapons drawn on just one guy. A bit overkill methinks.
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    Murder = lethal injection. Wait, police? Slap on the wrist.

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    He was shot because he was taking too long to comply and the officers lost their patients ....

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    Is there any reason they could not have used the bean bags first ? Im not seeing an immediate or imminent threat to anyone's life.
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    I like truebeliever. He's wrong, but damn if he isn't a great conversationalist and a gentleman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temporaryscars View Post
    I like truebeliever. He's wrong, but damn if he isn't a great conversationalist and a gentleman.
    He's definitely something
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    Murder.

    They have non leathal weapons and use them after they light him up with AR15s?

    they use bean bags AFTER the guy is on the ground, bleeding out and dies.

    because this... Makes sense?

    in before the "as long as they got home safe" post, attempting to justify murder.

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