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Police Kill Homeless Man (Caught On Tape)

9K views 202 replies 54 participants last post by  rnemhrd 
#1 ·
#61 · (Edited)
Holdover. This cop followed your suggested tactic:

http://seasonedcitizenprepper.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/knife-wounds-1.jpg

Some anti-cop people would rather see this happen:

326504d1324986166-man-knife-vs-cops-guns-ad5220bad46be9252654fd5e0cba0cf9.flv

Scroll the second video to past the half way mark.

when you deal with emotionally disturbed people and weapons nothing is assured.

What we can all agree to is that the psyc hospitals that keep letting them out is the common root of these problems. From the ones that push people into traffic and on coming trains to the mass shooters in Aurora and VT. If they kept them in as they did before change to "community based " treatment a lot of these things would have never happened.
 
#67 ·
Now these links are directly related to this incident correct?

They aren't, say, an irrelevant distraction or anything correct?
 
#105 ·
Dude, asking their opinion is like asking the Brady campaign for theirs.

Their example of a police shooting was factually incorrect.
The fact that police killed each year is down but the number of people killed in shootouts with police can just mean that the police are winning their gun fights more or dying less because of these tactics. No one is publishing that correlation one way or the other that I know.
Each incident has to weighed on its own merits.
95% are justified despite the number of shooting increasing as quoted by them. It's a percentage so numbers can go up and the rate might be the same.
It doesn't matter who investigates if they are unbiased. the rate has been about the same. The all civilian complaint board in NYC had the same rate before it went all civilian until they were under political pressure to increase the number of substantiations. Then after they cleared their backlog of cases by finding the officers guilty without looking at the facts ( a policy if the investigation was not completed by a certain time) they also found the cops "guilty' at the same rate. Look at the NYC CCRB semi-annual review as my cite from 1994 to the present. The FBI finds the cops justified at about the same rate as well as before despite the increase of shootings in the change in the civil rights law to cover under "color of law".
 
#75 ·
Mark, please show me where anyone in this thread said that this was a justified killing?

Guy, how long does it take to get the mobile crisis team out to the location? What do you do while you're waiting for them? Can't call a time out...

GOP, You can't stop future crime. However, once you're dealing with an obviously unstable person, you own the results.
 
#76 ·
GOP, You can't stop future crime. However, once you're dealing with an obviously unstable person, you own the results.
This I know, but I will say, lately this seems like the newest answer to justify everything that goes wrong. Maybe because of 24 hour news and the internet we all see the bad, or what we perceive to be bad situations.

I dealt with many, I mean many Soldiers coming home from war very emotionally touched; they were handled in a much different way than those who were not.

Many departments lack the funds to assist in dealing with these types of people, that is a real shame. As more and more money is deducted from the budgets that can help the mental's, these types of situations will occur more and more.

That is the real crime.
 
#77 ·
Agreed. And I am not justifying the actions here. But I am trying to keep the Monday-morning cop bashing within the realms of reality.
 
#78 ·
#81 ·
#83 ·
Double post
 
#86 ·
These guys will most likely lose their jobs over this . This isn't the case to be defending. They fked up royal
 
#87 ·
They very well might. I haven't heard anyone defending. They did **** up. Doesn't mean your earlier quoted statement was valid.
 
#90 · (Edited)
I'm willing to bet on it . No way this can be seen as endangering the life of an officer requiring deadly use of force. Who's life is in danger ? Not even the canine's.
 
#88 ·
Pretend for a minute this video is officer trainees in training (Not real) When you get them back to class and review the tape are you going to pat them on the back and say that exactly what you were supposed to do , excellent training guys !!! You guys did great. The only thing I saw wrong is maybe you could have shot him a little sooner and the placement could have been better. otherwise great .

Is that the way you see it?
 
#91 ·
Are you even reading the same thread I am? Are you reading my posts? They had the right tools there. They did it wrong. It went to hell. The guy was shot and killed, unnecessarily in my book. Some or all of them will be fired or criminally charged. Try to stay on point here.

But it just seems you were being dismissive of the serious of these actions.

We're talking murder here. It isn't like they wrote a bad traffic ticket.It's not a disruption of the use of force protocols...it's serious stuff.

As for tasers and beanbags, I'm never a fan of their use against lethal force. When lethal force is not yet present, try what you must.

More often than not, my "cop bashing self" on here is for the officers in these types of videos. It's clear the guy with the weapon makes a move toward the officers and whatnot. That is simply not there in this case.
Show me where I dismiss the seriousness of anything in the video. It IS a disruption of the use of force protocol, writ large. This is a textbook case of why use of force protocols were written.

It's not premeditated murder, however it very well may be manslaughter or it's equivalent under the laws of that state.

You weren't the one stating that beanbags or Tasers would solve everything. That was a poster I was replying to above.
 
#94 ·
Welcome to the thread. Please see post #84.
 
#97 ·
It's not quite a direct comparison, spat. A lot of the big gear that departments acquire is not a cash outlay. It's "given" through a federal program. The feds feel it's a better use of the equipment than abandoning it in the desert somewhere. And then they can use it as a carrot and stick situation with the local or state LE agency.

The funding for ongoing training generally does come out of the local department budget, and the time officers are off the street training is counted as a cost as well.

Not justifying any of it - just detailing it.
 
#100 ·
The main source of animosity toward law enforcement from people is that while we read about incidents like this almost weekly, it seems inevitable that they are found to have "followed procedure" and aren't seriously charged.

If we read more often about the "bad apples" going to prison we would have more faith in the system. The mistake that people on both sides make is directing the anger to the officers, rather than the system.

The justification "they all followed procedure" is evidence of that, if we have all these incidents where the officers followed procedure, then obviously the procedures are severely flawed.

There are many professions that have to make life or death decisions on a moments notice, some far more often than police, yet only police and legislators are immune from lawsuits. In the very least you should be able to sue the officers if they didn't follow procedure, and the department if they did.
 
#136 ·
People sue all the time and manly for nonsense. They do sue all the time. It's not much different than doctors who make life and death decisions. Mistakes or perceived mistakes happen and the lawsuits come.

You say more cops going to jail is the answer. And you used have more faith in the police . Why? Did they make less errors? No. They used to cover them up. Sorry but it's the truth. Instead of telling the truth they would cover it up. Police culture has changed a lot since the good ol days. Not completely but it has when it comes to things like that. It's better to tell the truth and explain then try to cover up. That's why you hear more about police mistakes even when there is no independent video to say otherwise. That's why the tape was released ( a poster stated he was surprised that it was released at all)
 
#114 ·
Cops get shot everyday but you put it to the back of your mind so you can function. Six officers should have been able to disarm this man .

The fact that you believe he could not or should not is indicative to the type/style of training you received.
 
#121 ·
Again I think they should have used different options like using the taser instead of the flash bang or the dog.

Once the mistakes were made, like when the canine officer knelt down in the danger area, their options became more limited Did the first shot occur before the guy turned his body. If so, that officer was justified despite the canine officer's mistake to enter the danger area. The other shots could be contagious fire. i don't know

I linked something to show that just because they are armed doesn't mean they are going to have one sided results:
326504d1324986166-man-knife-vs-cops-guns-ad5220bad46be9252654fd5e0cba0cf9.flv

Scroll half way thru then watch. Its not the same situation but you'll get the point.
 
#117 ·
I don't think the flash bang was needed. He appeared to be talking and complying until that happened. He very well might have thought they were shooting at him. I don't think the knife was out until after the flash bang. It almost seems like they just wanted to use all their toys.
 
#124 ·
Well, I guess I need to get me a damn helmet cam that I can look at myself naked in the freaking mirror, cause those things make 8 feet look like 18. Imagine what they'll do with 6 inches!!

Jayzoo H. Kryste, I watched this damn video twenty times. What the heck are we debating, here?
How the hell did ANY of these officers EVER sense they were in a danger zone???
WHEN did the man move toward them with his knife? Did I link to the wrong video??

I got an idea officers - let's back it up to the fifty second mark, just before the flash-bang.
Now - EVERYBODY STAND STILL. NOBODY MOVE.
Would the guy still be alive, and no officers injured? Or would that have taken too long? We're they late for IHOP?

Murder. Next video.
 
#125 ·
I'm amazed the cop didn't "accidentally" destroy his helmet cam. I can't imagine bringing that one back to the chief and thinking to myself, "There's no problem, here, is there?"
 
#126 ·
First - I honestly believe that most police are good people and are worthy of respect...

With that said, given the obvious militarization of police, including their associated training, is it any wonder that those on something of a power trip wouldn't gravitate to such roles??? Six heavily armed officers, plus a K9, should have been far more than enough to hold the guy until a non-lethal scenario could have been effected against a man with two 3" knives (who, by the way, appeared to be turning to lay on the ground as instructed when he was shot). Also, given the terrain, there's no way he was a flight risk or a danger to any of the officers (any of us would already be in jail for a shoot like this)...

Actions such as these call into question just how much militarized police forces can be trusted with our security. I liked it better when officers were sworn to serve and protect and saw themselves as being more like the rest of us...
 
#127 ·
Notice how there aren't other leos commenting on this like they do on other threads.

He will defend the cops until his last breath as I've said before no matter what evidence is presented. You are talking to a wall my friend.
 
#129 ·
Notice the one cop with two LTL guns who never used them until the homeless guy was near death. The SWAT appearing officer who did the shooting was forty feet away. Trained to kill, so he did. Justified.... Uh-huh, sure.
 
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