The ROE are more lax on our own citizens than they they are in Iraq. Something wrong with that.
34 seconds into the video the flashbang is deployed. Why was it deployed? I have no idea. It was a Fri evening. Maybe they had drinking to do.
37 seconds into video the guy drops his bags and the dog bites him. No knife in hand.
42 seconds into the video the k-9 officer has his dog and is looking down. Victim has hands at his sides he appears to be complying. He is turning around with his head down. It looks like he's looking for a place to lay down. I was under the impression the m84 causes confusion and can make it hard or impossible to comply. The deployed it (or a police version) and didn't take him to the ground right away. Poor tactics.
43 seconds into the video multiple gun shots are heard.
There is no way to justify this shooting. I would like the see the knife also. We all know what will happen to the officers. Nothing.
The ROE are more lax on our own citizens than they they are in Iraq. Something wrong with that.
34 seconds into the video the flashbang is deployed. Why was it deployed? I have no idea. It was a Fri evening. Maybe they had drinking to do.
37 seconds into video the guy drops his bags and the dog bites him. No knife in hand.
42 seconds into the video the k-9 officer has his dog and is looking down. Victim has hands at his sides he appears to be complying. He is turning around with his head down. It looks like he's looking for a place to lay down. I was under the impression the m84 causes confusion and can make it hard or impossible to comply. The deployed it (or a police version) and didn't take him to the ground right away. Poor tactics.
43 seconds into the video multiple gun shots are heard.
There is no way to justify this shooting. I would like the see the knife also. We all know what will happen to the officers. Nothing.
i had a different seconds count on my playing of it. I will watch it again when I can. But the man had the knife in his hand, swung it at the dog , held it between him and the dog. The canine officer comes up and kneels with the dog. The knife waves back and forth in the man's hand. He takes a step forward . A shot is heard around the same time his body turns. I don't know if he turned as reaction to it or if he was turning to lay down to comply. He takes two more steps before going down as the officer continues to fire. The corenors report can tell us if he was hit in the front. As well as the side and back.
Wasn't there and not trying to Monday QB but it sure seems they had other options available besides shooting him. That said he had knifes in both hands and had advantage of high ground. It did appear he was shot while turning away and not threatening the officers. Sad.
On an unrelated note, I thought I counted seven shots but read above it was six. Either way, this flies in the face of Andy and his seven round limit...
The k9 problem is thus, if they let a k9 go on anybody , that person is going to react in a instinctive defensive manner no matter what . Its extremely hard to be compliant with a k9 latched on your arm or foot , the natural reaction is to punch kick stab or shoot . The K9 is not reacting defensively, nobody is hunting down the K9 . the K9 is reacting the natural way and the it was trained , In aggressive manner ,
If a K9 officer releases his dog on a man holding a weapon , he pretty much sealed that mans fate before the dog ever reaches him . The man will, without a doubt , instinctively protect himself from being attacked by a large dog .
I don't know what the procedures or rules are for a handler , but I imagine they have to be carefull
Can somebody post another link to the video?
The one in the first post keeps linking me to a Saturday Night Live skit where a crazy guy is executed by a bunch of Keystone Cops...
Jokes aside, Truebeliever -It is worth mentioning here, it must be at least somewhat frustrating for an officer when a bunch of us are quarterbacking this incident after the fact, many of us not even being police officers (I assume).
All of your replies and inputs have been, I feel, calm, thoughtful and informative.
Thank you for your service, and we are grateful for your input.
Thank you. Sometimes it is but its about dialog. We don't have to agree. Hell, a good discussion usually starts with a disagreement on a subject. As long as we are civil to one another, i want to be challenged to think. And as I say with my fellow LEO's in the PMs, if I can make somebody at least see it from our perspective once in awhile, its a victory. I can learn something new, its a victory.
Sorry but he is right, a good majority of departments now do use a gray bowling pin style target or blue transitional target because of civil rights complaints against departments using black silhouette targets.
I was able to watch this with audio for the first time.
Military tactics used on US citizens. FNG wrong on so many levels. The mentally ill are not Al-Qaeda. The American People are not Al-Qaeda.
Police are now your judges, juries and executioners.
DROP the Knife, the guy is practically dead and you repeat the command to get a response, AS if getting shot in the ass with a bean bag wouldn't have stirred a response the first time you felt the need to reapeat. Ohh **** how about using the bean bag the first time.
These SOBs look like a bunch of kids poking at a dead animal with a stick. It's disgusting.
WOW a mentally unstable individual pulled a knife after you throw a flash bang at him a real shocker, you use bean bags and a dog after the guy is shot multiple times. If this is proper procedure welcome to United Police State of America.
Time Cops be required to serve in corrections where they deal with inmates unarmed, maybe then they will have the skill set needed to walk the streets.
Also high time the military tactics once reserved for raiding drug factories be shelved, If has become quit obvious police DONOT know how to control themselves.
ANY LEO who defends this type of action in any way shape or form Has Drank the cool aid or is only trying to mentally justify the fd up **** they've done on the job.
I was able to watch this with audio for the first time.
Military tactics used on US citizens. FNG wrong on so many levels. The mentally ill are not Al-Qaeda. The American People are not Al-Qaeda.
Police are now your judges, juries and executioners.
DROP the Knife, the guy is practically dead and you repeat the command to get a response, AS if getting shot in the ass with a bean bag wouldn't have stirred a response the first time you felt the need to reapeat. Ohh **** how about using the bean bag the first time.
These SOBs look like a bunch of kids poking at a dead animal with a stick. It's disgusting.
WOW a mentally unstable individual pulled a knife after you throw a flash bang at him a real shocker, you use bean bags and a dog after the guy is shot multiple times. If this is proper procedure welcome to United Police State of America.
Time Cops be required to serve in corrections where they deal with inmates unarmed, maybe then they will have the skill set needed to walk the streets.
Also high time the military tactics once reserved for raiding drug factories be shelved, If has become quit obvious police DONOT know how to control themselves.
ANY LEO who defends this type of action in any way shape or form Has Drank the cool aid or is only trying to mentally justify the fd up **** they've done on the job.
As I posted in another thread:
Here is an article for all those who wish for the good old days. Please note the difference in NYC shooting rate. The author did not mention the national shooting rate for the same years as a comparison:
"In 1971, police officers in New York City shot 314 people, killing 93. (In California, the state with the most police involved shootings in 2011, the police shot 183, killing 102.) In 2010, New York City police shot 24, killing 8."
please note when they critique the so called militazation, they talk about budgets as opposed to people shot and killed when compared to the numbers in the past.
And most large metropolitan departments, non- sheriff departments, did not have their officers do corrections time before the street time
Very disturbing.....i pray it does not come down to this same situation only with them saying "is that AR regisered?" until the PEOPLE of this great country take it back from the kings men this will be common.
Just nauseating , they looked scared, unsure and under trained to me. Poor guy. This crap go's on and we pray they are going to leave us alone in NY, God help us.
The ones that will cut down LEOs at every given opportunity no matter the facts presented in any particular case and already know their feelings even before clicking on the link?
You know, I'm beginning to wonder if there are just maybe "cop worshippers" or something that support any action taken by LEOs, no matter the clear facts presented, and already know that any action taken by them was justified, by the book, and needed because, they put their life on the line and, well, YOU just don't understand.
The ones that will cut down LEOs at every given opportunity no matter the facts presented in any particular case and already know their feelings even before clicking on the link?
You know, I'm beginning to wonder if there are just maybe "cop worshippers" or something that support any action taken by LEOs, no matter the clear facts presented, and already know that any action taken by them was justified, by the book, and needed because, they put their life on the line and, well, YOU just don't understand.
Check out the cop subforums on other sites. The general concensus is that the guy deserved to be shot because HE DIDN'T FOLLOW ORDERS. When I asked the question if I shot a man who was 20+ feet away from me, and turning his back to me, would I be arrested and mostly likely convicted of murder, I was told yes, but that it is different for cops.
Just saw on Fox, Bill O'Reilly is covering this on his show tonight at 8 PM They showed a blip of footage from one of the police cameras, looked like a different angle but it was quick and I might be wrong about that.
The Albuquerque Police Department has been under federal review by the U.S. Department of Justice since 2012 when the agency's record of shooting 25 suspect - 17 fatal - garnered national attention. The department has added 11 more shootings to that list since the end of 2012. Albuquerque officers have shot more persons than the NYPD, a department serving a city 16-times larger, since 2010.
The Albuquerque Police Department has been under federal review by the U.S. Department of Justice since 2012 when the agency's record of shooting 25 suspect - 17 fatal - garnered national attention. The department has added 11 more shootings to that list since the end of 2012. Albuquerque officers have shot more persons than the NYPD, a department serving a city 16-times larger, since 2010.
Yet, some here will indefinitely defend these atrocious actions as being morally and professionally correct.
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