Supreme Court: DNA swab after arrest is legitimate search
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  1. #1
    Colonel 1969iggy's Avatar
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    Default Supreme Court: DNA swab after arrest is legitimate search


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    General Shooter's Avatar
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    Shocking. And wrong. This does not mean we will lose the gun cases. Remember Heller was already decided. They will not back off of it with the same justices on the Court.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    General Shooter's Avatar
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    These 5-4 decisions are terrible for the country. The fact that there is such wide disagreement on what the Constitution means in the SCOTUS, when it is plainly evident, is very representative of why this country is so screwed up. We are a polarized society.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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    General Bob11's Avatar
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    What does this exactly mean? That they DNA swab a criminal and put him in a database after he is arrested? Or is this going to happen when we're pulled over for traffic violations etc?
    I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country

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    Colonel Hardrada's Avatar
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    I think they are staring to bite more than they can chew. People will not accept this. If I am wrongfully arrested and they take my DNA, well.. I will not sit still and I will make it as burdensome as possible for them to accomplish their goal.
    SCOPE
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  8. #6
    Colonel Hardrada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob11 View Post
    What does this exactly mean? That they DNA swab a criminal and put him in a database after he is arrested? Or is this going to happen when we're pulled over for traffic violations etc?
    It means they can swab you when you are arrested.. doesn't matter if you're guilty or not.
    SCOPE
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  9. #7
    General Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob11 View Post
    What does this exactly mean? That they DNA swab a criminal and put him in a database after he is arrested? Or is this going to happen when we're pulled over for traffic violations etc?
    Yes, if they can take the sample, then they can put it into a national database. Absolutely unacceptable before a conviction. Innocent until proven guilty! The SCOTUS has made numerous horrible decisions widdling away our Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights from the hey day of criminal defense rights in this country established by the Warren Court. The Second Amendment is about all we have left the Court is still upholding vigorously. We shall see.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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  10. #8
    Major 45Gunner's Avatar
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    We're probably, I'd say within the next ten years, going to start seeing the sub-dermal chip implantation for people arrested of criminal charges. Show up at the station in cuffs, win a chip that's not coming out.

    It'll be for the best interest of the country; especially the children.


  11. #9
    General Bob11's Avatar
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    Thanks for further clarifying NYShooter and Hadrada. Anyone else looking forward to having a barcode on their arm in the near future?
    I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country

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    Major 45Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob11 View Post
    What does this exactly mean? That they DNA swab a criminal and put him in a database after he is arrested? Or is this going to happen when we're pulled over for traffic violations etc?
    I took from it that you have to be processed in the police dept. to get the swab; it seems to be that it could be part of the booking procedure, long before any sort of conviction. Apparently people just aren't making it into their little databases fast enough anymore; and has the added bonus of a wide-drag net to see if they can implicate someone in another crime without their having to go to trial.


  13. #11
    Colonel Hardrada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Gunner View Post
    I took from it that you have to be processed in the police dept. to get the swab; it seems to be that it could be part of the booking procedure, long before any sort of conviction. Apparently people just aren't making it into their little databases fast enough anymore; and has the added bonus of a wide-drag net to see if they can implicate someone in another crime without their having to go to trial.
    Pretty soon they'll start swabbing our kids in kindergarten "for their own good"..
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    Colonel loki34's Avatar
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    Not to support them but isn't DNA much like fingerprints, they routinely take fingerprints to positivly identify someone so why not DNA. Don't get me wrong, if I have misunderstood something educate me, don't set me on fire. Isn't everybody fingerprinted after arrest and if DNA is accepted to be a positive form of ID then having a data base of DNA to ID criminals makes sense, I think.

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    The artist formerly known as jhm8071 NirvanaFan's Avatar
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    While this is extremely unnerving, it's not firearm related, so I'm moving it to OT.
    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Colonel 1969iggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhm8071 View Post
    While this is extremely unnerving, it's not firearm related, so I'm moving it to OT.
    Sorry, i thought it was in Laws/Politics... didn't know it was specific to firearm laws/politics....

    Although i think it's an indication that we need our firearms more than ever.

  17. #15
    Major 45Gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki34 View Post
    Not to support them but isn't DNA much like fingerprints, they routinely take fingerprints to positivly identify someone so why not DNA. Don't get me wrong, if I have misunderstood something educate me, don't set me on fire. Isn't everybody fingerprinted after arrest and if DNA is accepted to be a positive form of ID then having a data base of DNA to ID criminals makes sense, I think.
    Criminals would be one thing; convicted criminals. That's already a practice. But you would be potentially subject to this now if you're brought down to the station on a suspended driver's license, or something like that. It's not the swabbing that's being objected to, it's the point in the contact with law enforcement that's the issue. That it's occurring as part of the booking procedure. It's another way to get your information into a database, plain and simple. And, as the article pointed out, to link someone to a crime on a baseless search.

    Which, is sort of a grey area in my opinion; on one hand, you did it, and now you're caught. On the other, it's a baseless search. That really is a hard part of the issue, that they may in fact catch more criminals. You'd also catch more criminals if you suspended the need for a warrant, too. May as well abolish the 4th at that point all-together.


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    Colonel Hardrada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki34 View Post
    Not to support them but isn't DNA much like fingerprints, they routinely take fingerprints to positivly identify someone so why not DNA. Don't get me wrong, if I have misunderstood something educate me, don't set me on fire. Isn't everybody fingerprinted after arrest and if DNA is accepted to be a positive form of ID then having a data base of DNA to ID criminals makes sense, I think.
    DNA goes beyond the standard identification of an person from the standpoint of visibility. It is intrinsic to the individual and people don't realize the implications of "giving your code up". It's the blue-print for who you ARE in a "coded makeup" and, given the science that we've opened up, could you imagine that getting hacked? A finger print is one thing, being able to reproduce your code for nefarious purposes is another.

    No, your DNA is NOT the same as a fingerprint. While the venn diagram might overlap on the uniquely identifying part of its utility, your print and your code are not, in any way, shape, or form, remotely the same thing. One is a product of the other.
    SCOPE
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    Colonel Embree Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardrada View Post
    I think they are staring to bite more than they can chew. People will not accept this. If I am wrongfully arrested and they take my DNA, well.. I will not sit still and I will make it as burdensome as possible for them to accomplish their goal.
    You should demand a Warrant, issued by a Judge ... for an invasive search
    The intention is to build a Database of personal DNA, by any means possible

  20. #18
    I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Weiner usmcveteran's Avatar
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    My DNA is already on file (military). Ideally for me I agree people should be fingerprinted, photographed and sure DNA taken upon arrest.

    However I think if that person is found not guilty in court or charges thrown out then all that information should be destroyed. I find it ridiculous that if you were falsely accused of something you should have all that information and reports in your background when you did nothing wrong and it will follow you for the rest of your life.

    Sure I can see people saying that its good to have if someone gets away with a crime over and over again to see that info to establish a pattern but to me not having that information available is still more important to protect those wrongly accused.

  21. #19
    The artist formerly known as jhm8071 NirvanaFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcveteran View Post
    My DNA is already on file (military). Ideally for me I agree people should be fingerprinted, photographed and sure DNA taken upon arrest.

    However I think if that person is found not guilty in court or charges thrown out then all that information should be destroyed. I find it ridiculous that if you were falsely accused of something you should have all that information and reports in your background when you did nothing wrong and it will follow you for the rest of your life.

    Sure I can see people saying that its good to have if someone gets away with a crime over and over again to see that info to establish a pattern but to me not having that information available is still more important to protect those wrongly accused.

    Why not just wait to take their DNA until after they have been convicted? If their DNA is going to be used as evidence, it is one thing, but I don't agree with taking it "just because."
    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

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    The artist formerly known as jhm8071 NirvanaFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1969iggy View Post
    Sorry, i thought it was in Laws/Politics... didn't know it was specific to firearm laws/politics....

    Although i think it's an indication that we need our firearms more than ever.
    No big deal. With the crazy amount of threads about laws and politics, we had to start keeping all the firearm related ones separate from non-firearm related ones.
    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Colonel Embree Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcveteran View Post
    I agree people should ...... DNA taken upon arrest.
    .

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    joining the military was a choice(unfortunately not for draft guys) getting forced to take a dna test because someone said you are bad is another.

  25. #23
    I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Weiner usmcveteran's Avatar
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    This really is an interesting topic. Ok so I do agree that the SCOTUS does have an interesting point about DNA and booking procedure and it not violating the 4th amendment but what about the 5th amendment?

    If someone is a serial killer and their DNA was left at all the previous crime scenes but their DNA was not on file so they were not caught then wouldn't compelling them to give a sample violate their 5th amendment rights?

    ETA: see with new points of view added I can change my perspective lol

    ETA again: With the 5th amendment I would say one could argue that the taking of DNA is constitutional but using it in court without the consent of the defendant would be as if he were testifying against himself and violate their 5th amendment right
    Last edited by usmcveteran; 06-03-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  26. #24
    Captain tripwirez's Avatar
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    Maybe NYShooter can elaborate on NY, but this state just expanded not too long ago the crimes that require DNA samples be taken. I don't recall what they are at the moment.


    Edit: This is from the DCJS website: "Under New York State law, any person convicted and sentenced for any felony under any state law or Penal Law misdemeanor is required to provide a DNA sample for inclusion in the DNA Databank. Any offender convicted in a New York State court who is required to register as a sex offender must provide a DNA sample for inclusion in the Databank. More information about DNA qualifying offenses."
    If you've got them by the balls their hearts andminds will follow.

  27. #25
    Colonel 1969iggy's Avatar
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    I have no problem with DNA being collected and added to a database for CONVICTED criminals.

    I have no problem with DNA being used as evidence when OBTAINED WITH A WARRANT.

    These are reasonable.

    To take DNA information and store it for someone who could have merely been in the wrong place at the wrong time WITHOUT consent is 1984 come to life.

    If i was wrongly accused and knew my DNA would exonerate me, you think they would have trouble getting a sample?

    Now with a DNA database, how long before DNA evidence can be manufactured with a biological equivalent of a 3D printer?

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