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  1. #1
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    Default so the neighbors dog... (random question)

    is a piece of ****. it will run after people, snarling and barking at whoever is walking/running/jogging down the sidewalk, it has passed into my property before; the thing is mean. people will not walk past their house without crossing to the opposite side of the street first. animal control has been called at least 5 times since last summer by myself, they wont take the animal away because there is no sign of abuse even though the owner will leave the dog outside all day and night.

    if the dog were to snarl and run toward me or my family on my property in a "no discharge" town, would i be legally able or liable to shoot it?

    fyi- i dont want to shoot it, and i hate the fact that i would possibly have to kill an animal who thought it was doing right from instinct, but i would like to know my options.

  2. #2
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    I am not sure of the legalities, but if a snarling dog is charging my family its going bye bye.

  3. #3
    Colonel Tim1's Avatar
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    This law was dug up the last time we had this conversation. It relates to civil liability but seems to imply that you can defend yourself against an attacking dog:

    § 121-a. Exemption from civil liability.
    1. If any dog shall, without
    justification, attack a person, or behaves in a manner which a
    reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
    threat of serious physical injury to a person, when such person is
    peaceably conducting himself in a place where he may lawfully be, such
    person or any other person witnessing the attack or threatened attack
    may destroy such dog while so attacking, and no liability in damages or
    otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.
    2. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a companion animal,
    farm animal or domestic animal, or shall behave in a manner which a
    reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
    threat of serious physical injury or death to a companion animal, farm
    animal or domestic animal, where such animal is in any place where it
    may lawfully be, the owner or caretaker of such animal, or any other
    person witnessing the attack, may destroy such dog, and no liability in
    damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.
    Regarding the "no discharge" ordinance, some of those have exemptions for self-defense. Look up the ordinance in your town and see what it says. I'm not sure I would worry about such an ordinance if the alternative to shooting was watching one of my kids get ripped up by an aggressive dog, but you should probably find out what it says anyway.
    Last edited by Tim1; 06-04-2010 at 12:48 AM.
    “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” -Sir Winston Churchill

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by javerial View Post
    This law was dug up the last time we had this conversation. It relates to civil liability but seems to imply that you can defend yourself against an attacking dog:



    Regarding the "no discharge" ordinance, some of those have exemptions for self-defense. Look up the ordinance in your town and see what it says. I'm not sure I would worry about such an ordinance if the alternative to shooting was watching one of my kids get ripped up by an aggressive dog, but you should probably find out what it says anyway.
    if my family or myself were attacked by a dog, there would be no question that i would shoot it.


    javerial: good point and thanks for the response; i did not search the forum.

  5. #5
    Bob
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    Just remember - it's all about the "reasonable person" standard and what you can articulate.
    A golf course is a deliberate and willful misuse of a perfectly good rifle range. - Lt. Col. David Grossman

  6. #6
    Captain NewYorker's Avatar
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    . .
    Last edited by NewYorker; 10-30-2010 at 09:16 PM.

  7. #7
    Major RDFABSREP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorker View Post
    The dog isn't the piece of crap... your neighbor who owns it is. The dog is just a dog.
    Truth.

    Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have pets. My Boxers are like my kids; I can't imagine just "throwing" them out into the yard all day and night.
    “Disconnect and self destruct one bullet at a time
    What's your rush, now? Everyone will have his day to die." -APC

    This Too Shall Pass

  8. #8
    Super Moderator FishDude's Avatar
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    How about a big can of Cabelas Bear spray or pepper spray? I had a similar situation, after 2 blasts the dog decided he didn't like our property anymore! I really blasted him long & hard, so much that the owners complained about it, I just walked away from them.
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people
    always possess arms." ~Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Member of the First U.S. Senate.

  9. #9
    Sergeant zeeto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAVX View Post
    is a piece of ****. it will run after people, snarling and barking at whoever is walking/running/jogging down the sidewalk, it has passed into my property before; the thing is mean. people will not walk past their house without crossing to the opposite side of the street first. animal control has been called at least 5 times since last summer by myself, they wont take the animal away because there is no sign of abuse even though the owner will leave the dog outside all day and night.
    Is it contained within a yard? Or is it just free-roaming? It's not so much the leaving it outside that makes your neighbor an ass, I had a malamute that practically lived outside in the snow, it's that it sounds like s/he just lets it roam. Aren't there leash law type laws around you?

  10. #10
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    Realizing they probably aren't legal, my buddy got ahold of some bean-bag rounds for his 870 from some cops he had the same discussion with. It is much quieter than a regular slug and a snarling dog will be very surprised when he gets hit. But I wouldnt hesitate to put any animal down that is going after somebody unprovoked.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishDude View Post
    How about a big can of Cabelas Bear spray or pepper spray? I had a similar situation, after 2 blasts the dog decided he didn't like our property anymore! I really blasted him long & hard, so much that the owners complained about it, I just walked away from them.
    IMHO, It is always better to say "Officer, I pepper sprayed the dog" rather then "I shot the dog".
    The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of government. - Unknown

  12. #12
    Major Petrov's Avatar
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    Every time the dog acts stupid pepper spray the owner?
    Although Im sure the dog is a much faster learner comapred to the owner.

  13. #13
    Major ddan24's Avatar
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    Call 911 the next time it's acting aggressive, not animal control, that way there is a documented history of complaints. Animal control isn't always great at documentation.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishDude View Post
    How about a big can of Cabelas Bear spray or pepper spray? I had a similar situation, after 2 blasts the dog decided he didn't like our property anymore! I really blasted him long & hard, so much that the owners complained about it, I just walked away from them.
    Bear spray is legal in NY and can be bought over the counter at any retail store willing to sell it. Gander Mountain and Dick's sporting Goods don't sell it because they think it is illegal (it is actually a pesticide registered with the EPA and NYS DEC.) Eastern Mountain Sports sells it.

    However, it is illegal to use bear spray on a human. So carry the bear spray for the dog, and a firearm for the angry owner of the dog in case you cannot retreat with safety.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorker View Post
    The dog isn't the piece of crap... your neighbor who owns it is. The dog is just a dog.
    right, which is why i would hate to harm the dog. FYI, the guy was locking the dog in his car overnight in the winter (sub-freezing temps).

    i live in a very nice place, but this guy is nuts or something (mental health arrest 2 times in 1.5 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeto View Post
    Is it contained within a yard? Or is it just free-roaming? It's not so much the leaving it outside that makes your neighbor an ass, I had a malamute that practically lived outside in the snow, it's that it sounds like s/he just lets it roam. Aren't there leash law type laws around you?
    it is contained in their yard, but it will run...

    Quote Originally Posted by ddan24 View Post
    Call 911 the next time it's acting aggressive, not animal control, that way there is a documented history of complaints. Animal control isn't always great at documentation.
    i've always called 911, and animal control shows up, not the cops.

  16. #16
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    forgot to add; the dog was removed from the property in december due to threats from neighbors, but it returned recently.

  17. #17
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    PEOPLE v. WENDOVER, 13 Misc.3d 100 (2006) 2006 NY Slip Op 26399, 827 N.Y.S.2d 435 (2nd Dept)
    OPINION OF THE COURT

    MEMORANDUM.

    Judgment of conviction affirmed.

    Following an incident in which defendant killed a dog that had been attacking defendant's domestic goats, defendant was charged with inhumane destruction of a dog (Agriculture and Markets Law § 374 [2-c]), firing a weapon over a public roadway (ECL 11-0931 [4] [a] [1]), and discharging a weapon within 500 feet of a dwelling (ECL 11-0931 [4] [a] [2]). Defendant was acquitted of the first two charges but was convicted of the latter offense.

    Agriculture and Markets Law § 121-a (2) provides that, in certain circumstances, the owner or caretaker of a farm or domestic animal attacked by a dog "may destroy such dog, and no liability in damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction." Contrary to defendant's contention, the criminal liability incurred by defendant herein was not "on account of such destruction" but on account of the method defendant employed, discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a neighbor's dwelling. The People established beyond a reasonable doubt, and the court below, as trier of fact, properly found, that no circumstances existed in the case at bar to demonstrate justification (see Penal Law § 35.05 [2]) as a defense to the charge of discharging a weapon within 500 feet of a dwelling. The facts established at trial indicated that the dog was leaving the premises, after attacking a domestic animal, when shot, and that defendant had pursued the dog to shoot it. Thus, although defendant's action in killing the dog was found to be justifiable pursuant to Agriculture and Markets Law § 121-a (2), thereby establishing a defense to the Agriculture and Markets Law § 374 (2-c) charge of inhumane destruction of a dog, the People established that no "imminent . . . private injury [was] about to occur" that would support the Penal Law § 35.05 defense of justification to the charge of discharging a weapon within 500 feet of a dwelling (see People v Bolton, 213 AD2d 660 [1995]).

    The opinion implies that if the dog had been shot in the act, the defense of justification could apply to the discharge of a weapon within 500 feet of a residence.

  18. #18
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    You would have to look at your own towns guidelines but when this issue came up for me the 'no discharge of firearms in city limits' only applies to non-self-defense situations. NY's self-defense laws are a little vague, as is every single law in NY that deals with anything remotely close to firearms for some reason. Ultimately any discharge of firearms in self-defense would be up to the discretion of your local DA as without a castle law type law in place the decision lies with them.

    Sorry just noticed that nogods posted the statute that implies that certain gun discharge restrictions don't apply when loss of life/limb are reasonably at risk.

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