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  1. #1
    JDR
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    Default Non Resident Pistol Permit In NY?

    I have a question on non NY residents obtaining a pistol permit. I've searched this forum for any past comments and they were all NY residents obtaining other state permits.
    I own a vacation property with a domicile on it in Yates County and it's big enough I put in a bench rest for a 50 yard range. So far all I've shot on it is .22 rifles.

    The way I read the official on line info on NY state pistol permits non residents cannot apply. I'm a resident of NJ. I stopped in and talked to the State Police and was told that nonresidents cannot receive a permit. So far looking pretty grim.

    Does any one have any information that would change that guidance?

    Thanks,

    Jim

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  3. #2
    Major sdb3023's Avatar
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    Jim, Non residents do not receive a NYS permit. Sorry, looks like long guns is your going to get.
    "Honor is due to those who went simply because they did."

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    Major JStarX7's Avatar
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    Yup, sorry. Pretty much the long and short of it is non-resident = no pistol permit.
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

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    Sorry, you have to live here.
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    I think you found the answer from the state code and the state police.....
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  7. #6
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    Default Part-Time New York Residents Eligible for Pistol Permits

    This requirement was challenged by attorney Alfred Osterweil and ruled in his favor. Do a google search on his name for details on the case.

  8. #7
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    Yeah if you have a business or address in NY your good to go. You have to get a NYS NON Driver ID card though.

  9. #8
    Sergeant Frankly's Avatar
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    Just donate $50k to Cuomo to cut the red tape.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra View Post
    Yeah if you have a business or address in NY your good to go. You have to get a NYS NON Driver ID card though.
    [Edit: I now realize I got suckered into a thread from 2010, after which the New York Court of Appeals clarified this exact circumstance (in 2013) via Osterweil v. Bartlett.]

    This guy is spot-on. JDR, you're a New York resident. If you look at my post history, you'll find I'm in the same circumstance and had no issue applying for and being issued a New York pistol license with a Pennsylvania domicile (and, by definition, residence) and a part-time New York residence.

    One may have multiple residences, but only one domicile. For pistol licensing, New York law only cares if you can establish residence (solely because of Osterweil v. Bartlett). While not required to make you a resident (you already are), a NYS non-driver ID just simplifies the matter of convincing others of your status with a universally-known document.
    Last edited by user4687756; 07-08-2016 at 12:26 AM.

  11. #10
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    Default New York Court of Appeals says JDR's circumstances make him eligible to apply

    Quote Originally Posted by waldershrek View Post
    Sorry, you have to live here.
    The New York Court of Appeals disagreed in 2013, thus making JDR eligible. Alfred Osterweil maintained a vacation property in Scoharie County, and persuaded the Federal 2nd circuit court of appeals to ask New York's highest court to clarify this question.

    See http://www.nycourts.gov/ctapps/Decis...3-Decision.pdf

    [...and then I read the date on these messages, and realized I got suckered into a thread starting in 2010]
    Last edited by user4687756; 07-08-2016 at 12:23 AM.

  12. #11
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    This is very interesting. I'm currently NY resident/domiciled but about to head out of state...though I'll likely keep my house in NY for a period of time.

    User468etc. If you have a moment, can you provide any details about your application process? Whom did you speak to/where did you apply, docs required? Any information would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper81 View Post
    This is very interesting. I'm currently NY resident/domiciled but about to head out of state...though I'll likely keep my house in NY for a period of time.

    User468etc. If you have a moment, can you provide any details about your application process? Whom did you speak to/where did you apply, docs required? Any information would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks
    From what I know of the process, if your address isn't changing, there should be no issue with keeping your permit as-is. If I were in your situation, I'd either keep my NYS driver's license, or convert it to a NYS non-driver ID and get your driver's license in the destination state. I don't think modifying your NYS ID is necessary, but I've found that having the NYS non-driver ID helps to convince people of the legitimacy of my New York residency without showing them a pile of papers (consisting of a lease or tax bill, mail sent to the address, etc). You're a resident whether or not you have these documents.

    The permit I was issued by Sullivan County is no different than those issued to full-time residents. I was given a choice about whether I wanted my New York or Pennsylvania address to appear (I chose PA). I don't think this mattered beyond what was printed on the permit. My post history contains quite a bit on my circumstances and application process. If those posts don't answer your question, feel free to send me a private message.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4687756 View Post
    From what I know of the process, if your address isn't changing, there should be no issue with keeping your permit as-is. If I were in your situation, I'd either keep my NYS driver's license, or convert it to a NYS non-driver ID and get your driver's license in the destination state. I don't think modifying your NYS ID is necessary, but I've found that having the NYS non-driver ID helps to convince people of the legitimacy of my New York residency without showing them a pile of papers (consisting of a lease or tax bill, mail sent to the address, etc). You're a resident whether or not you have these documents.

    The permit I was issued by Sullivan County is no different than those issued to full-time residents. I was given a choice about whether I wanted my New York or Pennsylvania address to appear (I chose PA). I don't think this mattered beyond what was printed on the permit. My post history contains quite a bit on my circumstances and application process. If those posts don't answer your question, feel free to send me a private message.


    It's fine that you, as a
    primary resident of Pennsylvania, had the opportunity to be issued a NYS Pistol License in Sullivan County for your secondary residence. Unfortunately, in New York State, there is no standardization of how and what types of pistol licenses and to whom they are issued. What even makes the process more convoluted is that NYS Supreme Court Justices, County level Judges and four police agencies act as licensing officers. What I am attempting to explain is that even though you might cite case law in granting NYS pistol licenses to non-residents-- the licensing officers MAY not accept it. Then it would be up to the non-resident to challenge the licensing officer in court--costing the denied applicants many thousands of dollars in legal fees.

    Yes, many counties will flat out state, "You must be a legal resident of XXXX county to apply for a pistol license in this county." They will NOT even process an application for an applicant residing outside their county. That means going to court and that costs money.

    However; I recently read on this forum of two bordering counties in western NY and PA that has an informal reciprocal agreement that will allow PA residents with a PA pistol license to apply for NYS pistol licenses and visa versa.
    Last edited by CountyCorrectionOfficer; 07-10-2016 at 09:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CountyCorrectionOfficer View Post
    It's fine that you, as a primary resident of Pennsylvania, had the opportunity to be issued a NYS Pistol License in Sullivan County for your secondary residence. Unfortunately, in New York State, there is no standardization of how and what types of pistol licenses and to whom they are issued. What even makes the process more convoluted is that NYS Supreme Court Justices, County level Judges and four police agencies act as licensing officers. What I am attempting to explain is that even though you might cite case law in granting NYS pistol licenses to non-residents-- the licensing officers MAY not accept it. Then it would be up to the non-resident to challenge the licensing officer in court--costing the denied applicants many thousands of dollars in legal fees.Yes, many counties will flat out state, "You must be a legal resident of XXXX county to apply for a pistol license in this county." They will NOT even process an application for an applicant residing outside their county. That means going to court and that costs money.However; I recently read on this forum of two bordering counties in western NY and PA that has an informal reciprocal agreement that will allow PA residents with a PA pistol license to apply for NYS pistol licenses and visa versa.
    I prefer to look for ways to encourage people to do what they desire, rather than looking for ways to discourage them.

    Luckily for the original poster, who will probably not think to check this thread after six years, Yates county has been listed as consistently "green" on the county map posted here on the NYFirearms forums. That thread is the most centrally located gathering of county policies on the issuance of pistol licenses. Quoting from that useful thread, that means

    [the county] will (as a general proposition) issue full carry licenses to qualified private citizens. A county that requires applicants to hold restricted licenses for a period of time, to complete a training course, and/or to specifically ask for a license to carry is green if it will generally issue full carry licenses to individuals who meet the requirements.


    Though it's a little outside the scope of the original poster's question, the informal agreement between the counties of Bradford PA and Chemung NY was a little laughable, as this article quotes the Chemung County Sheriff citing the already in-place requirements (via Penal Law 400.00) to have some connection to his county to apply in Chemung NY. From the article:

    "If you're a Bradford County resident and you own land in Chemung County, you work in Chemung County, if you are a current or retired law enforcement officer or if you frequently do business in Chemung County," said Sheriff Christopher J. Moss from Chemung County, New York.
    Last edited by user4687756; 07-12-2016 at 07:00 PM.

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