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Thread: Rem. 700 sps aac-sd .308 doesn't seem to want to group well?

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Rem. 700 sps aac-sd .308 doesn't seem to want to group well?

    This is a new gun with 20 rnds. of Winchester 150 grn. Power Points, and 18 rnds. of Hornady 168gn. A-Max over 42 grns.of Varget so 38 rounds total. I'm using a Nikon Monarch 4x16x40 with a set of DNZ Game Reaper ring/base combo. I fired the 18 reloads the next day after another good bore scrubbing. At 50yds. the first 3 round group was one ragged hole less than .5" so, I thought everything was fine and it was going to start grouping. When I moved out to 100yds. using same load, I readjusted my side focus/parallax I checked real close by moving my head and watching for movement in crosshairs till there was none. I then looked at the adjustment knob and it was right on 100yds. The problem was I was hitting all over the target with nothing resembling a group. I did have a couple go close together maybe far left then maybe a couple more far low or high or right? When I was maybe an inch to the left of POA I turned the windage 4 clicks to the right and wound up 2" or more to the right? I've checked all base and ring screws for tightness and no slipping by marking with pencil. Also, I relieved a little material at the tip of the forearm so the stock would no longer make contact with the barrel while on bipod or rest as mentioned by others on another forum. They also, said get rid of the junk stock but, I'm on a fixed budget and would sure hate to waste another $200.00 or so for a Bell & Carlson stock and still have save problems or even worse. I thought about taking my Weaver t36 off of my CZ 527 in .204 and trying it. But, adjusting parallax by eye and it was right on the 100yd. mark on the adjustment knob makes me wonder if it's worth the trouble of trying the Weaver or not? I sure would appreciate any suggestions as I just don't know what to do. Thank You!

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    General dsdmmat's Avatar
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    Is this a load you have tried before and a new rifle or a new load with a new rifle? If you do not beleve it to be the scope, you may want to try sweet spotting the rifle. Load 20 rounds (same bullet weight and primer) from min to max one round each .3 grains difference in each load until max is reached. Fire the rounds over a chrono and record the velocity as well as the striking point on the target, the rounds will string then group then string and may group again. I have seen some rifles that will have 3 different groupings. That way you can find what the rifle likes as far as bullet weights and powder charges. Worth a shot.

    My 700 absolutly loved the 165 grain psp with 26.5 grains of IMR 4227 under it.
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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5200 View Post
    This is a new gun with 20 rnds. of Winchester 150 grn. Power Points, and 18 rnds. of Hornady 168gn. A-Max over 42 grns.of Varget so 38 rounds total. I'm using a Nikon Monarch 4x16x40 with a set of DNZ Game Reaper ring/base combo. I fired the 18 reloads the next day after another good bore scrubbing. At 50yds. the first 3 round group was one ragged hole less than .5" so, I thought everything was fine and it was going to start grouping. When I moved out to 100yds. using same load, I readjusted my side focus/parallax I checked real close by moving my head and watching for movement in crosshairs till there was none. I then looked at the adjustment knob and it was right on 100yds. The problem was I was hitting all over the target with nothing resembling a group. I did have a couple go close together maybe far left then maybe a couple more far low or high or right? When I was maybe an inch to the left of POA I turned the windage 4 clicks to the right and wound up 2" or more to the right? I've checked all base and ring screws for tightness and no slipping by marking with pencil. Also, I relieved a little material at the tip of the forearm so the stock would no longer make contact with the barrel while on bipod or rest as mentioned by others on another forum. They also, said get rid of the junk stock but, I'm on a fixed budget and would sure hate to waste another $200.00 or so for a Bell & Carlson stock and still have save problems or even worse. I thought about taking my Weaver t36 off of my CZ 527 in .204 and trying it. But, adjusting parallax by eye and it was right on the 100yd. mark on the adjustment knob makes me wonder if it's worth the trouble of trying the Weaver or not? I sure would appreciate any suggestions as I just don't know what to do. Thank You!
    Hi,
    Give the barrel a little more time to break in and while you do that debug any problems.
    The stock you either fix it that can only be done to a certain extent or put it in the trash. It has a great positive grip but it is flimsy and inexpensive so you will not get results with that stock as is. This is a must do.
    Make sure the scope mounts are steel, probably need some bedding work and also solid steel mounts. I don't think the scope is bad but this is
    easy to verify.
    Regarding the loads it does very well with the 155gr Amax and 168 bullets. It has a deep throat so you need to make sure you find out the Max COAL and then back out a little bit otherwise the jump is substantial and will affect your loads. Make sure they are concentric too.
    In summary, replace the stock, try the other scope and pay attention to COAL and loads.
    Have patience. I hope this helps.
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    Thanks very much for all the great suggestions folks! I plan on working on the loads more also, I used my Hornady tool with modified case to find the lands along with my bullet comparator with caliper. Anything close to the lands will not fit the magazine but, as mentioned might be the only thing to make this rifle group. I can live with loading one round at a time if it will just shoot good then I will try to work up a deer load that will be accurate enough to deer hunt and fit the magazine for deer season. The main thing that's been my worry is having a bad barrel. Thanks again and all suggestions are welcome!

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    I have 35 rounds through mine so far and at 100 yards I'm within 1" groups, I haven't bedded the stock or any other parts yet. I've been shooting 168gr federal match bthp

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    You're never going to touch the lands with a factory barrel as long as you're loading to fit in a magazine. I load 2.860" OAL. Longer than SAAMI specs but fit in an AICS magazine. I don't know how far off the lands I am, probably quite far. All I know is that it's not touching them.

    Try some different factory ammo. Buy some Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175 grain and see what it can do. My 700 shot the same out of the box as it does now. I'm convinced that break in is a myth with commercial barrels. It'll probably shoot a little bit better if there is a little fouling but not correct what you're seeing.

    If you have the factory plastic stock shoot it off a sandbag. Shooting that stock off a bipod attached to the sling stud is worthless.

    If you are a decent shot that gun should be shooting 1" groups or better at 100 yards right out of the box with good ammo.
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    I am using nikon monarch 5-20x44 on burris rings, egw rail, factory stock, and jp tactical comp if it helps any

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    You need a new stock.. Check the classifies there is a nice KRG Gen II for sale : ) probably get a sweet deal too
    meketrefe likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhondastyle07x View Post
    I have 35 rounds through mine so far and at 100 yards I'm within 1" groups, I haven't bedded the stock or any other parts yet. I've been shooting 168gr federal match bthp
    hmn! that's beginning to make me worry about my barrel even more.

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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5200 View Post
    hmn! that's beginning to make me worry about my barrel even more.
    Remember the factory stock has some serious issues. Do something with it or might be better to just put it in the trash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5200 View Post
    hmn! that's beginning to make me worry about my barrel even more.
    Every bit of advise given concerning the stock is spot on - bedding the action in a crappy stock would be a waste of time.... the front is still going to flex and at the very least make the shots inconsistent - there is a short write up on this forum about stiffening the for-end of the 700 stocks - if you don't want to swap the stock that would be the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by demerson View Post
    Every bit of advise given concerning the stock is spot on
    While I agree it's a piece of crap, it's not going to make a gun capable of sub MOA shoot all over the paper at 100 yards from a sandbag. He's already verified that the barrel isn't touching it.

    The problem in this case is going to be somewhere else. Start with different ammo and a different scope since you already have another scope to try.
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    +1 for trying different ammo and a known good scope - also take down rings and bases and re-mount them - If you have access to a shooting rest that will lock the gun in place , get it on paper , and while locked in see if the groups are better - if they are good then you have eliminated problems with the firearm .
    if he is using a bi-pod and loading the legs he will have a different pressure on the legs each shot and depending on his form he may be causing contact- I'm not just grabbing this out of thin air it comes from personal experience with both Savage and Remington firearms with the "flexy" stocks - with proper technique the gun should shoot an "inch" or better with the flexy stock
    Last edited by demerson; 06-17-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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    General meketrefe's Avatar
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    I agree with Jeff,
    It is not the stock alone but if one wants to be consistent the stock must go. Or at least do something with it to fix the issues.
    Try another the scope and also other loads as already recommended. Also don't drink too much redbull before the shooting session starts. lol.
    Life is short. Smile while you still have teeth.
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    Appreciate all the new replies! I'm going to try my Weaver t36 and also, re-measure to the lands again I believe I had it figured for a .040" jump to the lands before and have plenty of bullet still in the case. I then realized it would not fit the mag though so I went ahead and made the coal by the Hornady 8th edition suggestion. I think I will, load them long as mentioned and load one at a time and see how it groups. But, I'll change just the scope first then the coal. What I mainly want to do is try to rule out having a bad barrel before the 1st of July cause I for sure, plan to order at least, a Bell & Carlson stock since funds are tight but wish I could get better. I know my Savage 10fp in .223 is a tack driver at 100yds. in it's flimsy stock even get lots of groups under .5" with handloads. That's what really makes me wonder if a new stock is going to close my groups up and be consistent. I'm going to have to try everything first before ordering a stock and hopefully I can rule the barrel out as being the main culprit. I sure do appreciate all the help you people are giving me! I'll also, keep an eye out in the clasifieds around the first of next month!
    Last edited by p5200; 06-17-2012 at 09:46 PM.

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    I've checked and from what I came up with this stock should fit my 700 AAC-SD in .308 is this correct? Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist Style 2 Remington 700 SPS BDL Savage 10/12 Weatherby Vanguard Howa 1500 Vertical Grip 2092, 2096, 2997, 2998 & 2999 2092 Remington 700 Short Action BBC, 02 Black 2092 Remington 700 Short Action BBC, 02 Black

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    Quote Originally Posted by p5200 View Post
    I know my Savage 10fp in .223 is a tack driver at 100yds. in it's flimsy stock even get lots of groups under .5" with handloads.
    Sorry to go off topic here, but I'm curious what you are loading for your Savage. I have one and am trying to work up a load, maybe you can save me some time and money.
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    I have this same rifle.

    I apologize if I touch on stuff already covered above, but I dont want to read all the posts. I do have some suggestions:

    1) If you're reloading the 168gr A-max, measure the inside of your receiver to see what the COAL is of the bullet while touching the lands. I have found that my sweet spot is between .020-.030 off the lands. I also use Varget and Reloader 15. If you want more specifics on my load data, PM me. I've since switched to 185gr Berger hybrids. Also keep in mind that the 1:10 rifling is made to handle the heavier grain bullets. I believe the rifle can handle up to 230gr+.

    2) The stock isnt exactly ****, but it isnt exactly good. It's a hogue overmolded stock that the factory made cheap. Your main priority should be on saving some cash to upgrade this part of your rifle. Keep an eye out on forum classifieds, armslist, or online sales. You want to upgrade this. I immediately put my rifle in an HS Precision stock which has an aluminum bedding block and allows the barrel to float.

    After switching the stock, I've tried a few different factory rounds and a few different types of handloaded rounds. I didnt have good luck with SMK's (168gr) and I dont like winchester ammo---but i'm not saying they wont work for you. I did have luck with 168gr A-max handloads and factory rounds; but Berger are the best. My tightest 100 yard group was litterally 5 shots through the same hole using a bipod off a bench.

    3) Make sure the thread protector is on tight. Also consider a muzzle brake/ compensator. I'm using the JP rifles compensator and I highly recommend it. It greatly reduces barrel jump when shooting. That control you will gain will reduce your anticipation of the recoil and give you a smoother shot.

    My rifle is in the shop right now getting timed and trued right now but I'll let you know if that helps anything when I get it back and get it to the range.

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    I could get close to 1/4" groups with my 700vtr @ 100 yards with 40gr vmax. Those bullets seemed to be the key to everything for me. I used to put them over some varget at around 25gr. Groups were amazingly tight at 200yards too with almost no scope adjustment. Those things just fly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
    Sorry to go off topic here, but I'm curious what you are loading for your Savage. I have one and am trying to work up a load, maybe you can save me some time and money.
    I've had good luck with 55grn. Hornady V-Max over 25grns. of Varget and about .020" off the lands using Winchester brass and CCI BR4 primers. I've just got some 69grn. SMK. I plan to try soon. Good luck and be safe!

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    I've had some luck with the 55 vmax on varget too. I now use these for my AR/ home defense rounds.

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    I put my Weaver t36 scope on reduced action screw torque from 50"lbs. to 30"lbs. to help reduce any action stress from the rocking motion of barreled action in stock. I took my time between shots and watched my breathing, changed to very light grip and contact with stock, and trigger control. After scoping in I shot this 10 round group with COL giving about .040" off the lands for my skill level and poor eye sight, I think I can assume my barrel is ok and go ahead and order the new stock on the 1st of next month. I sure appreciate the help from all you great members and am glad I joined this forum!
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    ad you have it figured out. happy shooting

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    Whats wrong with these stocks? I dont understand...Why are they crap?

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