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.22 caliber ammo

4K views 56 replies 21 participants last post by  4excalibur 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Recently there was a question about someone being a business in regards to selling .22 ammo. Let me say I am not posting this because of that misconception. I would agree that it sounded like there was a possibility that there was a business involved.
So, it gets me thinking. Lets be honest. Is it not the case that the majority of .22 ammo sold on the forum is for profit? Thus a business.
I mean really, how much of the total .22 caliber ammo sold here is because someone just wants to help out another forum member?
How much is offered for sale because someone just sold their last .22 caliber firearm and no longer has a use for what appears to be a rather large supply of .22 LR?
I will see someone place a post informing everyone that such and such store has bulk xxxx brand for sale at a certain price. Within a day or so I see the same ammo show up on the forum in the same geographical area as where it was available at the such and such store. The price always seem to show a considerable mark up.
I also see .22 LR advertised here for .15 cents a round. Exactly same stuff I last purchased for .065 cents a round.
So really, lets be honest with ourselves. Isn't a good deal of this ammo selling a "business" in the sense that it is being done for profit?
There may not be a store front or business license involved but it sure looks to me like there is " business" being done for profit.
Before we get off on the debate on whether or not it is right or wrong or ethical or not, that is not what I am presenting here.

Having said that, I will add. I have no problem with the guy who grabs .22 ammo for his and his family's use by standing in line when the stores open. He or she is fortunate to be in a position to do what my life style prevents me from doing. That is my problem not theirs.
However when they bring their entire family, cousins, neighbors and the family pet to defeat the maximum purchase policies this prevents someone like me from being able to stop in the store later in the day to purchase ammo. Then, if those same people offer to sell it to me at a considerable mark up IMO that is wrong. First they deplete the supply so folks like myself cannot buy and then offer it to us for an increase in price for profit.
In addition to the "For Sale" ads I see not only here but elsewhere I have personally been stopped in the parking lots where ammo is sold and offered the sale of ammo. This was after they were hanging out at the ammo counter listening to me inquire about ammo, and then following me from the store. Both times the specific ammo I was trying to purchase were named by the seller in the parking lot by caliber.

Just food for thought.
 
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#2 ·
I have a shop selling sporting goods & Ammo. I can't list 22 for sale here because I don't pay the vendor fees to the web site owners. I sell for a less than the people that drive around all day buying up all they can find and charging 30 to 70% more than they pay.

I understand the site owners charging to be a vendor. I choose no to pay to list my products here to keep my prices lower. Most of the members here live to far awa to buy from my shop anyway an shipping would be a deal killer. I find listing 75.00 dollar ammo for 105.00 pretty low., Why don't they leave it on the shelf for someone that needs it and not get it to make a fast buck.
 
#12 ·
I have a shop selling sporting goods & Ammo. I can't list 22 for sale here because I don't pay the vendor fees to the web site owners. I sell for a less than the people that drive around all day buying up all they can find and charging 30 to 70% more than they pay.

I understand the site owners charging to be a vendor. I choose no to pay to list my products here to keep my prices lower. Most of the members here live to far awa to buy from my shop anyway an shipping would be a deal killer. I find listing 75.00 dollar ammo for 105.00 pretty low., Why don't they leave it on the shelf for someone that needs it and not get it to make a fast buck.
I hear you. One of things that I present in the original post is that the people buying and then re selling for profit are really no different from you . I suppose it boils down to how you define "business". Well, yes there is a difference. They do not have to get a business License, report the profit from their sale to the IRS, fill out sales tax forms etc, etc..
 
#3 ·
wow..great post DD..

as scalpers have done to the ticket world...ammo scalpers are just the new generation ruining the ammo world, and it blows! yes like you posted, some is fair..or even some xtra for a slight profit is even fair (this is america) entrapenoures and all..but I whole heartily agree that going around and scooping up everywhere all the time and ripping people is not fair, nice or good to do.
 
#4 ·
I see the same people selling ammo here week after week at higher than fair prices who are obviously the jerks who get to the stores and clean them out at opening time on stock days,it is irritating but if people are jonesing for ammo they will pay for it.
I for one won't,I have bought ammo from good members here at a fair price and will continue to if finances allow,but I will not support the hoarder/re sellers.
 
#13 ·
Certainly nothing wrong with parting with some extra ammo from time to time. Quite a while back when I sold a .22 cal pistol, I sold some CCI Mini Mags to someone who needed them for breaking in their new pistol. Was not the same person I sold the pistol to. I bought those Mini Mags for 6.5 cents a round. For simplicity sake in the math we agreed on 7 cents a round for 400 rounds. Having sold my pistol I figured I could help the guy out and not lose money and he was very happy to get them at a fair price. We both walked away feeling good.
 
#5 ·
Recently there was a question about someone being a business in regards to selling .22 ammo. Let me say I am not posting this because of that misconception. I would agree that it sounded like there was a possibility that there was a business involved.
So, it gets me thinking. Lets be honest. Is it not the case that the majority of .22 ammo sold on the forum is for profit? Thus a business.
I mean really, how much of the total .22 caliber ammo sold here is because someone just wants to help out another forum member?
How much is offered for sale because someone just sold their last .22 caliber firearm and no longer has a use for what appears to be a rather large supply of .22 LR?
I will see someone place a post informing everyone that such and such store has bulk xxxx brand for sale at a certain price. Within a day or so I see the same ammo show up on the forum in the same geographical area as where it was available at the such and such store. The price always seem to show a considerable mark up.
I also see .22 LR advertised here for .15 cents a round. Exactly same stuff I last purchased for .065 cents a round.
So really, lets be honest with ourselves. Isn't a good deal of this ammo selling a "business" in the sense that it is being done for profit?
There may not be a store front or business license involved but it sure looks to me like there is " business" being done for profit.
Before we get off on the debate on whether or not it is right or wrong or ethical or not, that is not what I am presenting here.

Having said that, I will add. I have no problem with the guy who grabs .22 ammo for his and his family's use by standing in line when the stores open. He or she is fortunate to be in a position to do what my life style prevents me from doing. That is my problem not theirs.
However when they bring their entire family, cousins, neighbors and the family pet to defeat the maximum purchase policies this prevents someone like me from being able to stop in the store later in the day to purchase ammo. Then, if those same people offer to sell it to me at a considerable mark up IMO that is wrong. First they deplete the supply so folks like myself cannot buy and then offer it to us for an increase in price for profit.
In addition to the "For Sale" ads I see not only here but elsewhere I have personally been stopped in the parking lots where ammo is sold and offered the sale of ammo. This was after they were hanging out at the ammo counter listening to me inquire about ammo, and then following me from the store. Both times the specific ammo I was trying to purchase were named by the seller in the parking lot by caliber.

Just food for thought.
You could not have said it any better!
 
#10 ·
nah screw that..I just buy online and have it shipped to me..I buy from all the scalpers I know, and have all the friends I know ship me their extras from their work's postage machine.

;)

before all you partial closet Libs start crying about laws and jailtimes....it was a joke!
 
#11 ·
I took the day off to do some running around and happened to be near three different walmarts and a gandar mountain, herb philipson and a dick's store at one point during my travels. I went into each store to see what was going on and happened to notice there were a couple of the same customers milling around the ammo counter at two different stores. Two of the walmarts I went to had .22 for sale at 4:87 for 50 none of the other stores had any. I wasnt looking for 22 but I was paying attention to who was looking for it. I happened to be looking for the new 17 super mag ammo. I found a few places had it but they didn't have the gun, The one store that had the gun didn't have any ammo for it. I am probably going to buy the ammo when I see it and after I get 1500 rounds stocked up pick up one of the guns.
 
#16 ·
That's a novel idea. Get the ammo first and then buy the gun.
I am dragging my feet right now on a pistol in .32 ACP because I am worried about getting ammo for it.
 
#14 ·
"When determining if a sale must be reported as income it isn't the dollar amount that matters or how it was sold, but whether the item was sold for more than it was originally purchased. This is because selling something for more than you bought it results in a capital gain, which must be reported to the IRS as income."

"If sales become frequent activities done to make a profit, the IRS may classify that hobby as a business. If the taxpayer is the sole proprietor, purchases and sales must be reported on
Schedule C. A tax benefit of operating a business is that ordinary and necessary business expenses can directly offset income and a loss can be shown.No matter what is sold (it's a treasure to someone) or how often, all taxpayers who make a profit on a sale are obligated to report that money as taxable income. Determining what your tax obligations are for any sales you make can be determined with the guidance of a tax professional."

So the point is, scalpers are tax cheats and you can feel free to report them to the IRS if you like.



 
#18 ·
I understand. I was not going to go there. I am sure I have a few Voodo dolls of my likeness with pins hanging out of them after starting this thread.
When I said, "They do not have to get a business License, report the profit from their sale to the IRS, fill out sales tax forms etc, etc.. ", I was not speaking to the legal aspect but to the practical aspect.
 
#21 ·
I wanted a 22 pistol but without available ammo it didnt make sense. I did purchase a bunch of 22 from two different guys that have adds often, I made a fair deal and they made a few bucks. So having a good stock of ammo I went out and bought that 22 pistol to find out most of the ammo doesnt run very well. lol...
 
#28 ·
I think this was asked in another thread when the unSAFE act was first forced upon us, but it bears repeating.

Since I, as a private citizen, can sell a few boxes of ammo legally.....at what point does the "few boxes of ammo" constitute commercial sales?
I ask this since it is known that there is a family of four floating around the greater Rochester area buying up all of the available .22 ammo (3 boxes per person, 4 people can quickly wipe out what little supply the nearest Walmart, etc., manage to get). They then turn around and overly inflate the price and put it up on ammolist.
They've been doing this since .22 became so hard to find. Guys I shoot with say they see them regularly in the Walmarts, the Henrietta Gander, etc.

Now I'd call this a business, and expect that they have purchased the required permits from the great State of New York. Haven't they?

Bueller?
 
#31 · (Edited)
What you are describing is exactly what prompted me to start the thread.
However, I was not trying to point out the illegality of what we are discussing. We all sell things between ourselves from time to time and I am sure no one files the sale with their taxes. However, when someone makes an overt effort to purchase anything solely to resell for profit and does so over a period of time then it certainly does become a source of income. Thus as you and others have pointed out should be handled as a business in all respects.
Frankly, I don't care if someone withholds tax money from the State or Feds. from time to time. Probably all of us have done it and at times didn't even realize it. Certainly we gave it no thought.
But, what you describes undermines others in two ways. First it removes the product from the market for others who are unable to take the time or are unavailable in the morning to play the "Ammo Line Game". Additionally we do not have enough family to invite along to play the game with us.
Second, it takes that same product and offers it to those who could not play the "Ammo Line Game" for what at times is a ridiculous price mark up. Then we get the argument that, " I had to spend the gas and take my time to go and get it, I should be compensated for that time and gas". I say, " just take what you need and don't wipe the supply out. I will get to the supplier and buy my own".
We often read on this forum about banding together against unjust laws and we are all in this together etc, etc. Brothers and sisters together as one.
IMO the "we and us" philosophy is taking a back seat to the "I and me" philosophy in way too many circumstances. Anyone who grabs all the ammo available by whatever means they can and then offers it to their brothers and sisters in our situation is all about themselves. "It's all about me"
Harsh accusation maybe. However "If the shoe fits, wear it!"
 
#33 ·
damn good statement..
unfortunately Im gonna have to be honest and go with..no ammo, which means I would pay if I had to pay..
in fact it's happening right now with the 709slim Magazines and ooo lordy I paid.
 
#38 ·
I am guilty of that. I won't sell any ammo but I have given away a bit to a good friend who had a hard time finding some.
 
#43 ·
I keep my threshold at 1000 per pistol..double on Shottie and double that even on 22 rifles, and thats cause the 22 game..i grab a 1400 pail alomost anytime I see one.
 
#46 ·
I'm surprised more stores don't raise their prices. All the places local to me are still selling it at the same price they were prior to the drought and they are constantly bought up by scalpers. I went to Collector Rifle and Ammo in Hopewell and saw lot's of .22 at prices below scalper prices but higher than everywhere that was out of stock. They had a good supply and while I was there people were still buying.
 
#47 ·
Of course they had ammo. People to buy to resell are not going to pay their prices.
 
#48 ·
Thanks

Thanks to whoever fixed the missed key stroke in the title.
 
#49 ·
First I could care less what someone else does to make money as long as they are not hurting people. If someone is doing their best to make money for supporting them or their family I say go for it.
Next I think anyone selling ammo before this new law goes fully into effect they are going to be kicking themselves and anyone buying at these prices will be happy they did. I predict that when the background check for ammo goes into effect there is going to be much worse pandemonium than the shortages have created.
Chain store corporations have deceided that any product with controversy is better left alone and not worth the hassle. Also with the liability increasing the larger stores will opt out of selling ammo as they are responsible for what their employees do or don't do correctly. Have you seen some of these employees in action? They can barely stock shelves of DVDs.

I tell my kids "don't worry about what other people are doing as you have no control over them" there are enough things to worry about without that.
Jim
 
#50 ·
First I could care less what someone else does to make money as long as they are not hurting people. If someone is doing their best to make money for supporting them or their family I say go for it.
Next I think anyone selling ammo before this new law goes fully into effect they are going to be kicking themselves and anyone buying at these prices will be happy they did. I predict that when the background check for ammo goes into effect there is going to be much worse pandemonium than the shortages have created.
Chain store corporations have deceided that any product with controversy is better left alone and not worth the hassle. Also with the liability increasing the larger stores will opt out of selling ammo as they are responsible for what their employees do or don't do correctly. Have you seen some of these employees in action? They can barely stock shelves of DVDs.

I tell my kids "don't worry about what other people are doing as you have no control over them" there are enough things to worry about without that.
Jim
Well if someone is actually supporting themselves and their family by buying ammo at Field and Stream etc. and then reselling it I think they might be a bit confused on how to make a living. JMO
The rest is speculation and only time will tell.
Like every subject discussed on the forum there are a bunch of different opinions from different people. Nothing wrong with that. Life would be pretty strange if we all thought alike and lived like robots.
My opinion is that it stinks that someone will walk into a store every morning with as many of their family with them in an attempt to buy up the supply and then offer it to a fellow enthusiast for a profit. And often a sizable profit. By doing that they make the supply unavailable for those who cannot be there to stand in line every morning. Those who cannot play the Ammo Game are supporting their family's in other ways than buying and selling ammo.
 
#54 ·
Great thread Drummer. My feelings are right on point with yours. There's a guy up the road from me that actually bought a lighted billboard to boast on his scalping game. "22 ammo in stock" (its a private residence). These Year round daily "yard sales" popped up and seems to me like a way to get away from needing a business liscense.
 
#57 ·
Report his tail..private residence, unless he's FFl..he's probably not giving Uncle Sam his and advertising a buisness in a residential zone..but do this after you buy all he's got..hehe
 
#55 ·
Last post on this subject for me, the walmarts I have gone to in the rochester area have had very little to no 22lr according to employees I have talked to. With 4 kids and 5 grandkids I will have no problem shooting this stuff up so don't wworry about me.

Ethics??? Are you kidding, the ethics of buying and selling is buy for a buck and sell for two.
Jim
 
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