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  1. #1
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    Default Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill

    No Lawyers - Only Guns and Money: HR 822: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced (Updated)

    "Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-FL) introduced HR 822 on Friday. It is:
    To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.
    Rep. Heath Shuler (D-NC) - my Congressman - is the first co-sponsor of the bill. Whatever else I might say about Heath, he is good on the Second Amendment. You also may remember that he came out in the aftermath of the Tucson shootings saying he had a CCW permit and did carry. He also encouraged his staff to obtain a CCW permit.

    UPDATE: Thanks to Paul Flusche of Congressman Cliff Stearn's office we have the text of the bill. After a quick reading of the bill, I'd see this is a pretty good bill. If a state issues a concealed carry permit, then your CCW is good there subject to the rules for an unrestricted CCW. For example, if your home state allows you to carry in a place that serves alcohol but you are in North Carolina which doesn't, you have to abide by the NC CHP regulations."

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  3. #2
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    So this would mean that bloomberg would have to let out of staters carry in NYC?

  4. #3
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    Not sure yet but here's another little breakdown from a different blog...


    Language Available for HR822 | Snowflakes in Hell

    "Thanks to John Richardson for updating with the language. I like the bill overall, as it bases its authority on the 14th Amendment, but does not bet the farm on it, as it also bases it on the commerce power as well. My only concern is I worry the language isnít clear enough, and leaves some weasel room for states like New Jersey and cities like New York:
    (b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
    The concern here is that New Jerseyís condition and limitation is chiefly whether or not you have a need. Fortunately, that is clarified a bit in the next subsection:
    (c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.
    What if New Jersey simply declares that it does not issue unrestricted licenses, and that the restrictions are subject to a needs based test? Clearly that goes against the spirit of the law, but itís weasel room. Also, my understanding is that a resident of the State of New York that has an unrestricted permit may still not carry within the City of New York, without having a separate permit from the City of New York. I donít know enough about how New York Law is structured, but Iím not sure this bill will allow you to carry in New York City.
    This bill also does not have the same provisions for those in Vermont who do not have the option to get a license to carry, but Vermonters can get covered by obtaining a non-resident license from another state. That provision was likely left out to increase the chance of passage."

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  6. #4
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    This is a great idea. Will we see it in NY anytime soon? Realistically? No friggin idea.

    Allowing the states to restrict is going to water this down. Just use the driver's licenses as a model and work in the details for carrying a firearm. Not a tough task
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  7. #5
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    More info on NYC...

    More on Whether HR822 Covers New York City | Snowflakes in Hell

    "There’s a principle in statutory construction that statutes should be read in a way that gives effect to the will of the legislature. Pretty clearly the language that preempts “the law of any State or political subdivision thereof,” would be key here. But it’s not just that. It’s also what legislators are arguing. The following is from the Congressional Record:
    [A]nybody who has a concealed carry permit from the State of South Dakota goes to New York and is in Central Park, Central Park would be a much safer place.
    - John Thune, Senator sponsor of the amendment, 7/22/2009
    Known gun runners would go to Vermont, get a gun license, get a concealed carry permit, and they could get 20, 30, 50 guns concealed in a backpack, in a suitcase, and bring them and sell them on the streets of the south Bronx or central Brooklyn, bring them to Central Park or Queens, and our local police would have their hands tied.
    - Charles Schumer, in the Congressional Record, 7/21/2009
    In addition to this, schumer is also on record in the same day’s record saying the bill “would affect every city in the country.” We also have to consider statements by NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly:
    New York City’s strict requirements as to who can carry a concealed weapon have contributed to the city’s unparalleled public safety. Our effort, indeed our entire mission, would be severely undercut by this bill. In a city where 90 percent of all guns used in crimes come from out of State, it is easy to see how S. 845 would pose a danger to New Yorkers by greatly increasing the availability of illegal handguns for purchase.
    So clearly on both sides we have ample evidence that legislators on both sides of the issue understand that New York City is subject to this law. I just wanted everyone to be aware there’s two sides to every issue. There may be a plausible reading that suggests NYC is exempted as an off limits place under New York State Law, but there’s an equally plausible, and possibly stronger reading that it is covered.
    It would be nice if the language could be made more clear, but great precision is difficult to get out of the sausage grinder of Congress. It’s a given that there will be handful of states, cities, and local municipalities that will challenge whatever language comes out. My concern is people are aware of the risks, and how the language could be twisted and interpreted. Ultimately it is the courts who decide these things, and it’s worthwhile pointing out there are plausible arguments each way."
    "New York City’s strict requirements as to who can carry a concealed weapon have contributed to the city’s unparalleled public safety."

    Really? So in that case, you wouldn't mind sharing with us the study/statistics/facts/evidence/etc to prove this right?
    Last edited by LeftHook05; 02-23-2011 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #6
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    That would be really good if this bill goes thru. Maybe then that would mean we would enter into agreements with other states, and not have to worry about getting a 'non-resident' permit from another state we'd want to carry in...

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    I wouldn't hold my breath for NY to take this up. This discussion has come up before.
    Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm

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    seems like a lost cause with this state

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    How does this effect states that have passed constitutional/permitless carry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by confused280z View Post
    How does this effect states that have passed constitutional/permitless carry?
    You still can get permits in AK and AZ. VT residents may be SOL.

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    I just checked the status of this bill and find that it now has 200 co-sponsors. Just maybe it has a chance. Write your congressman. BTW, you can check the status and see if your congressman is a sponsor at: Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - H.R.822 - All Congressional Actions - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    Merv

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