Concealed carry in NYC

[kisangani]

For the sake of argument since I couldn't find a thread or article on this-----does anyone know what has happened to individuals with NY CCWs issued upstate who have been caught carrying a handgun in NYC? I know the back of our permits say it's not valid in NYC, but I've always been curious, would violating that be considered an administrative violation like carrying out of your restrictions, or an outright crime. Like have people been arrested in NYC for carrying who otherwise have valid CCW issued in other counties upstate? Or even if they were, did the fact that they had a NY pistol permit give them any leniency in whatever proceedings followed?

[Saltwater60]

This is likely what would happen however you maybe treated worse since your permit says you can’t. The I didn’t know it was illagal doesn’t really hold water in this case.
https://queenseagle.com/all/2020/1/1...t-nyc-airports

it’s not worth the hassle for me considering I can just stay out of the city since I’m in WNY. I’m sure of a few things you would be arrested, have lots of legal fees, and you would lose your pistol permit.

[kisangani]

This is likely what would happen however you maybe treated worse since your permit says you can’t. The I didn’t know it was illagal doesn’t really hold water in this case.
https://queenseagle.com/all/2020/1/1...t-nyc-airports

it’s not worth the hassle for me considering I can just stay out of the city since I’m in WNY. I’m sure of a few things you would be arrested, have lots of legal fees, and you would lose your pistol permit.

Thanks for the article. I was specifically looking for something like that. However, all these people prosecuted in this article seem to be visiting from out of state, so was curious if there had ever been a case of someone from upstate getting caught in a situation like this in NYC with a valid NY permit. I would expect NYC would just treat them no differently than if they had no permit at all and/or robbed a bank 20 minutes prior, but I've never found a direct answer on it anywhere.

[smitty846]

You will be charged and convicted of criminal possession of a weapon. Same as not having a permit at all. Also, after passage of SAFE, they have the option to charge you with an elevated felony count, which is what they have been charging pretty much everyone with. They aren't shy about it. Your permit is no more valid there than someone writing "pistol permit" on a bar napkin with a crayon. No defense will be heard. You'll be all done.

Keep in mind, this is a city where it is illegal for the pocket clip of a pocket knife to be visible.

[kisangani]

You will be charged and convicted of criminal possession of a weapon. Same as not having a permit at all. Also, after passage of SAFE, they have the option to charge you with an elevated felony count, which is what they have been charging pretty much everyone with. They aren't shy about it. Your permit is no more valid there than someone writing "pistol permit" on a bar napkin with a crayon. No defense will be heard. You'll be all done.

Keep in mind, this is a city where it is illegal for the pocket clip of a pocket knife to be visible.

More or less what I expected.

Just came across this and basically answered my own question. Appears this person had a NY CCW in Monroe County and was arrested in NYC visiting the statue of liberty and charged with a class C violent felony. Same class of offense as aggravated manslaughter, aggravated sexual abuse, providing support for an act of terrorism, and robbery. Not to mention she lost her job too.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com...rest/13465409/

However interestingly, the case was ultimately dismissed.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...her-dismissed/

[WNYcarry]

More or less what I expected.

Just came across this and basically answered my own question. Appears this person had a NY CCW in Monroe County and was arrested in NYC visiting the statue of liberty and charged with a class C violent felony. Same class of offense as aggravated manslaughter, aggravated sexual abuse, providing support for an act of terrorism, and robbery. Not to mention she lost her job too.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com...rest/13465409/

However interestingly, the case was ultimately dismissed.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...her-dismissed/

I am aware of the same case. Per my understanding the case was dismissed as she did have an NYS permit, thus she could not be charged with criminal possession of a weapon. However, I would be very interested as well regarding the legal standing. I find it very interesting that all charges were dismissed, and she retained her teaching position (however with NYSUT that is a given).

[kisangani]

I am aware of the same case. Per my understanding the case was dismissed as she did have an NYS permit, thus she could not be charged with criminal possession of a weapon. However, I would be very interested as well regarding the legal standing. I find it very interesting that all charges were dismissed, and she retained her teaching position (however with NYSUT that is a given).

Yeah that made me curious too. Usually NY would spare no expense in crucifying her in order to make an example out of this scenario, so I'm surprised this was the outcome.

Maybe this was a typical NY gun case of arrest first, ask questions later and then upon review of the law, they found she was technically just carrying her gun outside of her restrictions. Of course the article makes no reference to this and doesn't clarify these specifics.

Took a look at the penal code, and there is absolutely no mention on how legally registered firearms on a permit issued elsewhere in the state are treated in NYC. NY's preemption clause and vague gun law nature only seems to compound the issue in trying to figure this out.

Obviously I don't think too many people would want to test the waters with something like this considering this person probably had to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees and narrowly avoided losing her job and becoming a convicted felon. But it would be great if there was somewhere in writing that clearly says whether carrying in NYC on a NY CCW is an administrative violation or a felony.

[WNYcarry]

When this case took place, I was advised via a local attorney (also very much pro gun) that technically under NYS law she has (had) a permit and could not be charged with criminal possession of a weapon. I had also heard that her permit was revoked per an administrative violation (carrying in NYC w/o authorization).

Yeah that made me curious too. Usually NY would spare no expense in crucifying her in order to make an example out of this scenario, so I'm surprised this was the outcome.

Maybe this was a typical NY gun case of arrest first, ask questions later and then upon review of the law, they found she was technically just carrying her gun outside of her restrictions. Of course the article makes no reference to this and doesn't clarify these specifics.

Took a look at the penal code, and there is absolutely no mention on how legally registered firearms on a permit issued elsewhere in the state are treated in NYC. NY's preemption clause and vague gun law nature only seems to compound the issue in trying to figure this out.

Obviously I don't think too many people would want to test the waters with something like this considering this person probably had to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees and narrowly avoided losing her job and becoming a convicted felon. But it would be great if there was somewhere in writing that clearly says whether carrying in NYC on a NY CCW is an administrative violation or a felony.

[1911operator]

You will be charged and convicted of criminal possession of a weapon. Same as not having a permit at all. Also, after passage of SAFE, they have the option to charge you with an elevated felony count, which is what they have been charging pretty much everyone with. They aren't shy about it. Your permit is no more valid there than someone writing "pistol permit" on a bar napkin with a crayon. No defense will be heard. You'll be all done.

Keep in mind, this is a city where it is illegal for the pocket clip of a pocket knife to be visible.

The five NYC District Attorneys will NOT prosecute, absent a criminal offense, a permit holder from elsewhere in NYS. This decision was made years ago The worst that will,happen, the firearm will be vouchered and the licensing authority will be notified. The licensee, sent on their way. Again, absent a crime, it’s an administrative violation, not a crime.

[Saltwater60]

Thanks for the article. I was specifically looking for something like that. However, all these people prosecuted in this article seem to be visiting from out of state, so was curious if there had ever been a case of someone from upstate getting caught in a situation like this in NYC with a valid NY permit. I would expect NYC would just treat them no differently than if they had no permit at all and/or robbed a bank 20 minutes prior, but I've never found a direct answer on it anywhere.

Yes however if you look at the out come nearly 80% are dismissed because they were honest mistakes. I see no reason to think the outcome in your case would be any different other than you can’t claim it was an accident.
Again I certainly don’t recommend it by any means. Hell they let most drug dealers off of gun charges.
Also we can’t assume all these are out of state people just the ones they expanded on.

[kisangani]

Yes however if you look at the out come nearly 8% are dismissed because they were honest mistakes. I see no reason to think the outcome in your case would be any different other than you can’t claim it was an accident.
Again I certainly don’t recommend it by any means. Hell they let most drug dealers off of gun charges.
Also we can’t assume all these are out of state people just the ones they expanded on.

You are definitely correct in that we can't assume those people are all from out of state.

The way the article you posted was worded however: it seems like the people who ended up getting arrested are those who got caught trying to fly out of NYC on the way home (likely out of state unless they are traveling from somewhere like Buffalo or Syracuse since there aren't many places you can fly to within NY). The issue was when they went to try and declare their weapon to TSA before boarding their flight in NYC. As I'm sure you know from perhaps traveling with firearms in the past, when they arrived at JFK or LGA, there was no checkpoint for them to pass through to retrieve their luggage and guns.

The fact that 100s of people have been arrested like this while probably trying to enjoy their vacation is shocking in and of itself. No wonder tourism has been dropping over time in the big apple.

*****Just to clarify one thing: I think the article cited 80% of these cases as ultimately being dismissed

[smitty846]

The five NYC District Attorneys will NOT prosecute, absent a criminal offense, a permit holder from elsewhere in NYS. This decision was made years ago The worst that will,happen, the firearm will be vouchered and the licensing authority will be notified. The licensee, sent on their way. Again, absent a crime, it’s an administrative violation, not a crime.

You go first.

[Saltwater60]

You are definitely correct in that we can't assume those people are all from out of state.

The way the article you posted was worded however: it seems like the people who ended up getting arrested are those who got caught trying to fly out of NYC on the way home (likely out of state unless they are traveling from somewhere like Buffalo or Syracuse since there aren't many places you can fly to within NY). The issue was when they went to try and declare their weapon to TSA before boarding their flight in NYC. As I'm sure you know from perhaps traveling with firearms in the past, when they arrived at JFK or LGA, there was no checkpoint for them to pass through to retrieve their luggage and guns.

The fact that 100s of people have been arrested like this while probably trying to enjoy their vacation is shocking in and of itself. No wonder tourism has been dropping over time in the big apple.

*****Just to clarify one thing: I think the article cited 80% of these cases as ultimately being dismissed

Correct it’s 80%. The zero I missed.

[1911operator]

You go first.

I’m exempt....

[smitty846]

i’m exempt....

lmfaooooooo!!!!

[Oscarbrown]

The five NYC District Attorneys will NOT prosecute, absent a criminal offense, a permit holder from elsewhere in NYS. This decision was made years ago The worst that will,happen, the firearm will be vouchered and the licensing authority will be notified. The licensee, sent on their way. Again, absent a crime, it’s an administrative violation, not a crime.

Is this from an official statement by the 5 NYC DAs? If not, I wouldn't bet on it. Better to just keep your gun out of NYC.

We can assume that someone will shortly sue NYC over its concealed carry laws in the Supreme Court and NYC will be forced to recognize Upstate CCWs or even all out of state CCWs. More likely NYC will cave rather than being responsible for a massive expansion of gun rights.

[kisangani]

Is this from an official statement by the 5 NYC DAs? If not, I wouldn't bet on it. Better to just keep your gun out of NYC.

We can assume that someone will shortly sue NYC over its concealed carry laws in the Supreme Court and NYC will be forced to recognize Upstate CCWs or even all out of state CCWs. More likely NYC will cave rather than being responsible for a massive expansion of gun rights.

Been waiting for someone to sue NYC and take an issue like this to the Supreme Court for years. Unfortunately every time this gets close to happening, NYC caves in and makes a minor change that barely loosens anything in order to prevent their unconstitutional restrictions from all falling like a house of cards should the federal government get involved and see the oppression they put their residents under.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/u...city-guns.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...1fc_story.html
https://gunsandamerica.org/story/20/...urt-dismissal/

[Saltwater60]

Is this from an official statement by the 5 NYC DAs? If not, I wouldn't bet on it. Better to just keep your gun out of NYC.

We can assume that someone will shortly sue NYC over its concealed carry laws in the Supreme Court and NYC will be forced to recognize Upstate CCWs or even all out of state CCWs. More likely NYC will cave rather than being responsible for a massive expansion of gun rights.

Not trying to be rude here but I hope you’re young and naive. The Supreme Court is null and void. Last time they took a major 2a case has been a long time. They did recently take one for NYC and that was NYC residents can’t take their firearms outside of NYC. NYC changed that and caved. We won nothing.

The Supreme Court in 100 days will be liberal anyway. One of two things will happen. Biden will pack the courts or Robert’s and Thomas will retire and be replaced with liberals. Robert’s was a liberal anyway so no loss there. Thomas is 100% 2 a supportive and that’s bad. Atilo isn’t far behind and will be a big loss too. We’re screwed man. The one Trump appointed can’t be trusted anyway. They side with liberals more often than not.

Also who is going to be the guy that gets arrested and sues? It has to be an old rich guy with lots of time and money.