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  1. #151
    General Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm DeGuerre View Post
    My point, before I started to foam at the mouth
    is that the SC has held in Brown v Texas, that it is unlawful to arrest simply to Identify ...
    and a Officer may initiate a consenual encounter, it is up to the " Subject " to refuse

    Yes that is correct, but in a valid Terry stop you already have RAS of criminal activity. If you refuse ID in that situation, the police have the right to arrest you until your ID is positively determined. This is primarily to make sure they have the real name of a suspect in the event that charges are filed and also to determine if this person has any outstanding warrants since the average person would not refuse to identify themselves in a legitimate LEO encounter, the courts have found that refusal to ID yourself in such a situation is suspicious (because people that have outstanding warrants are the ones most likely to do this) and the state interest in public safety allows them in this situation to detain you to determine ID.

    Where there is no RAS (see my prior posts), then they cannot stop you at all, and there is no duty to speak to the police or ID yourself to the police and there is nothing they can do about that.
    Last edited by Shooter; 03-03-2014 at 12:49 PM.
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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  2. #152
    General RayKnobs's Avatar
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    Has any real person been identified as receiving one of these letters everyone is talking about?

  3. #153
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    This is a serious game of AR registration chicken.

    I hope no one gets hurt and sanity returns to the CT legislature.

    Once the headlines read that the CT State Police has killed a home owner because he would not let them in the door on a warrant to search for an AR, the tide goes bad for them fast. Then it becomes us vs them.


    I can't help but think that this is exactly what someone wants. Armed confrontation with authorities. This undermines the "trust" the population has with LE. We let them give us tickets and take down bad guys when needed.
    It almost doesn't matter to the ones in charge. Let the good civilians fight the good LE, and we start infighting. Then, escalation. NG has to come in, full confiscation like Katrina.

    This goes bad in every scenario that this plays out in.
    Last edited by atlas1791; 03-03-2014 at 12:56 PM.

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  5. #154
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    The headline would read "CT state police heros, uncover domestic terrorist hoarding assault rifles".

    Don't kid yourself.

  6. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    The headline would read "CT state police heros, uncover domestic terrorist hoarding assault rifles".

    Don't kid yourself.

    You're exactly right.

  7. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    The headline would read "CT state police heros, uncover domestic terrorist hoarding assault rifles".

    Don't kid yourself.
    Isn't it wonderful that the majority of our news organizations are puppets for the government? Whatever happened to our real objective press?
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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  8. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayKnobs View Post
    Has any real person been identified as receiving one of these letters everyone is talking about?

    I've only seen the alleged original form letter, and haven't seen any verifiable reports of the police going to any doors.

    I'll believe it when I see verifiable reports, not from something someone posted on social media.

  9. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
    The headline would read "CT state police heros, uncover domestic terrorist hoarding assault rifles".

    Don't kid yourself.
    You forgot that after they raided his compound (house with detached garage) they also found bomb making materials (reloading supplies) and subversive printed material ( pocket copy of constitution)
    Gone on to greener pastures at ***************.com...BYE BYE


  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Shoot View Post
    I see your point BUT .... How many of your buddies were visiting ranges looking for post ban magazines prior to this law?? Were they out and about looking for guns with too many "evil features" as well?? That was a law adopted by NYS which started as a federal AWB ... it was "legally enacted" and it wasn't enforced!!! Neither will this "agenda driven law" be enforced to the extent some would like to think!! (at least in Northern NY ... NYC though .. they sure will!!) How about LEO's looking for illegally owned handguns being their only thing to do that day or any day for that matter?? That's been a law for quite sometime and yet .... there's another report in the media about a driveby shooting or murder committed with an illegally obtained handgun!! You also state the Sheriffs are elected officials ..... I think I'd re-word that if I were you because only those that are to head the Sheriffs dept are elected ... all those underneath them are employees! Also, DUHHHHHHH' Amico is in bed with the princess and doomturd and I'm quite sure, as are many, he's looking at politics as his next career!! He's not liked by many in the NYSP, so ... you tell me again how they'll all do their job or get fired. They don't care as much as you might think they do. You're only coming on here to pit the LEO's against the "common people" as usual. We wonder why there's such a divide! Why do you have it in your head that all LEO's are NOT people with family and friends and their own personal beliefs that will NEVER play a part in their decisions? Quite frankly you forgot to mention the the head of the NYSP is APPOINTED!! Which means that the people don't have a say in it ... that person is placed their with political intentions behind the decision which is EXACTLY why the Sheriffs will take a stand. (Which may be what you were trying to say but it's hard to know that being this is the internet .. hell ... you could be saying everything I've posted here and I'm not picking up your sarcasm in your posts!! LOL )

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/ny...lice.html?_r=0
    We are not really in disagreement.
    My POINT, which does seem to escape some folks, is that if you ask an ON DUTY LEO FOR THE RECORD, he has to answer the way they answer. Why on Earth would anyone subject themselves to discipline and termination to satisfy a total stranger? That is the part that does not make sense to me.

    As far as Sheriffs, yes they are elected, and the Deputies report to the ELECTED SHERIFF. So if the Sheriff says DO NOT ENFORCE, they are not getting into trouble for non enforcement.

    D'Amico is appointed, and therefore a stooge.

    And there have been persistent RUMORS over the years of cops watching the Calverton range. I have never been able to substantiate any of them. I shoot at the Nassau County range, and there are always many people shooting "AW" type guns. Recently I have seen what appear to be over 10 round mags, but no one bothers anyone, and keep in mind that various LE agencies, such as NC Sheriffs, use that range every day for training.

    So I think that the main issue in this State will be when the wife drops a dime on you, or of course when the gun is used in a crime. I do not put it past them to send out letters, but I am not so sure they will be busting doors down.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Shoot View Post
    Hmmm .... then how is it possible for ANYONE to make a citizens arrest?? There must be a "right" or "civil duty" somewhere otherwise, this could not at all be possible as they are not a LEO of any kind. Are we being mislead here into doing someone's job for them when they aren't around and we can indeed successfully detain a criminal? If I can make a citizens arrest, I am, for all intents and purposes, a peace officer. I am now exempt from the UNSAFE Act. Thank you for making this point to me.
    I am sorry, but I do not understand this post at all. The law clearly states when a citizen may arrest and detain, and it is also subject to the desk Sergeant saying NO.
    However, a citizen never has a duty to take any action, and LE in fact does have a duty. So I may be blind but I don't see your point. If you CHOOSE to detain someone for a crime committed in your presence, that does not make you a sworn LEO. If you CHOOSE not to detain the person, call the Police or do anything else, that is OK too, legally speaking.

  12. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayKnobs View Post
    Has any real person been identified as receiving one of these letters everyone is talking about?
    Crisis in Connecticut, confrontation looming? - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    Doesn't appear so.
    Alan Gura Says "Let my people go!"

  13. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by spat View Post
    After the first few arrests it won't matter how they do it, people won't wait anymore.

    Anyone who plans to shoot back when they blow the door in has planned poorly IMHO. If you let them dictate the time and manner of the battles they will win.

    Let them break in, not find anything illegal (several options to accomplish this) and assuming they didn't kill any of your family members in the process, sue the crap out of them. I'd like to see them try that 100,000 times.

    If they do kill any of your family members, sue them *and* hunt down the guys who did it, and the guys who ordered them,and the guys who supported the operation, etc...
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

    The first few gun owners will find themself at a severe disadvantage.

    The same will be said for the first few who are serving no-knock warrants, when those pushed too far decide to be proactive.

    I'd think our government would worry about Russia, Iran and Syria... not a 40 year old guy with a bad back, and my AR which they paid to train me on. If i wanted to do something sinister, as an engineer, i wouldn't use a rifle, it's too inefficient. If they want to worry about domestics, they could look at people who have the ability to greatly affect the economy, and try to figure out how to prevent a financial collapse.

    Imagine a terror event that froze people in their homes... people too afraid to go out and go to work, send their kids to school, SPEND MONEY... that's the event they should fear, not Daddy and son shooting at the range for god's sake.

  14. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougral View Post
    Consider the logistics of 100,000 home searches. Even 10,000 would be a massive undertaking. Imagine that in only 1 percent of those there was a somewhat ugly incident such as police pointing guns at spouses, kids, or elderly live-ins. Shots would not have to be fired to start giving many non gun owners the feeling they were living in a police state. I don't believe even 10,000 home searches would be doable before public opinion forced the government to back off.
    Agreed. It would take less than 10 no-knock raids for word to spread and perhaps a bullet gets shot into a CTSP officer's living room at 2am to indicate how pleased the citizenry is with this development. The Police Union would march right into Malloy's office and demand a stand down (what's the point of a fat pension if you're not around to water ski and golf after your twenty years?).

    Yes, the fat and happy middle class (of which I am one) may not rise up and confront the SP with arms, but there are many many marginalized and embittered (more thanks to Obamanomics) souls out there that are probably less interested in making a principled stand for the 2A as they are in death by cop. But the end result will be the same - come for the guns at the wrong house, poppoppop, somebody is dead.

    On another note, we are watching liberalism deliver precisely the opposite of what it says it wants (make nice diplomacy yields war in Crimea). If we get a spat of no-knock raids in CT, gun and ammo purchases - already at astounding levels - will skyrocket again. When a confiscation campaign leads to another 15-20 million gun sales year in the US, Malloy will be exiled by fellow Dems to the safe house.

  15. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by scosgt View Post
    We are not really in disagreement.
    My POINT, which does seem to escape some folks, is that if you ask an ON DUTY LEO FOR THE RECORD, he has to answer the way they answer. Why on Earth would anyone subject themselves to discipline and termination to satisfy a total stranger? That is the part that does not make sense to me.

    As far as Sheriffs, yes they are elected, and the Deputies report to the ELECTED SHERIFF. So if the Sheriff says DO NOT ENFORCE, they are not getting into trouble for non enforcement.

    D'Amico is appointed, and therefore a stooge.

    And there have been persistent RUMORS over the years of cops watching the Calverton range. I have never been able to substantiate any of them. I shoot at the Nassau County range, and there are always many people shooting "AW" type guns. Recently I have seen what appear to be over 10 round mags, but no one bothers anyone, and keep in mind that various LE agencies, such as NC Sheriffs, use that range every day for training.

    So I think that the main issue in this State will be when the wife drops a dime on you, or of course when the gun is used in a crime. I do not put it past them to send out letters, but I am not so sure they will be busting doors down.
    Bottom line, we shouldn't have to live in fear for exercising our rights.
    * NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE * GOA LIFE * SAF LIFE * NYSRPA * SCOPE LIFE *

    Without a doubt NY is the most corrupt state in the country. We live in a cesspool. Unfortunately I think the only way to regain your freedom is to move out of this progressive hell hole. FUAC. FUNY.

  16. #165
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    WHEN THEY COME: A Warning to Connecticut Police

    "When They Come: A Warning to CT Police"

    As Sebastian says over at Shall Not Be Questioned (Tuesday News Links | Shall Not Be Questioned):

    "When you boil away all the feel good nonsense, Bob’s nightmare scenario is what gun control means in the end. They don’t enforce these laws with time outs and hugs at the end. If you’re going to make something a serious felony, it had better be worth subjecting people to this, because that’s what it means."

    Laws are just words. But standing behind them is the "awesome power of the state," the specter of overwhelming state violence and "authorized" deadly force.

    Some posters here scoff at comparisons to Fascism. But it seems pretty obvious to me.

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