NYC Carry permit denied - costing me a job - appeal?
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Thread: NYC Carry permit denied - costing me a job - appeal?

  1. #1
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    Default NYC Carry permit denied - costing me a job - appeal?

    I have my NYC premise permit and applied for my carry permit in 2017 and have been fighting with NYPD since they denied it in 2018, weeks before I was to start a new job that requires a carry permit. Homeland Security cleared me and I was assigned a gun for the job.
    I appealed the carry permit denial administratively, was denied and filed the article 78 and was denied, again.

    They are citing a 20 yr old dismissed case where a dog attacked me. It was dismissed at the first court appearacne since the dog's owner admitted he did nothing to control his huge dog after I told him multiple times to stop yelling and control his dog. They are also citing a decade old driver's license suspension (for failure to pay fines in 30 days not DUIs or anything like that) although I have a current CDL with hazmat endorsement to carry explosives nationwide. The frustrating part is once we got discovery, I saw that the investigating officer approved my carry permit, 4 times. She told me she was recommending approval but when I got the denial, I presumed she hadn't told me the truth. I had to file carry permit applications for two different jobs and two different applications each so my carry permit was approved 4 times. The supervisor approved my carry permit as well, all 4 times - so 8 approvals total. It was denied by higher ups.

    I've already spent $6,000 in legal fees and application fees from the begining of this to get my premise permit and now fighting for my carry permit. An appeal to from the NY Supreme Court article 78 decsion will be like $7,500 - $12,000.

    I'm trying to decide if I should keep fighting this.

    I'm frustrated because my would be coworkers with carry permits are making $100,000+ with excellent benefits (lots of overtime) and I should have started the job working with them well over a year ago.
    Last edited by RTNYC; 10-14-2019 at 07:20 PM.

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  3. #2
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    I say keep fighting. If it means that much to you and will get you that much of a raise it’s worth the fight.
    Whats the job and why do you need a carry permit for it? Also what does homeland security have to do with it?
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    Do yourself a favor, you or your attorney need to get some media attention. There should be NO,issue, as you already have a NYC premises permit. You’ve been vetted, if the job is legit, you should have the permit. KEEP FIGHTING,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltwater60 View Post
    I say keep fighting. If it means that much to you and will get you that much of a raise it’s worth the fight.
    Whats the job and why do you need a carry permit for it? Also what does homeland security have to do with it?
    It's a federal security job.
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    In my opinion, as long as you're financially able to do so and it won't bankrupt you, keep fighting and maybe consult with your lawyer to see if filing a lawsuit against the city for arbitrarily denying you your 2nd amendment right would be something to consider. I just think the powers that be just use any past legal issue to justify their decisions to keep citizens unarmed. There counting on you to just give up.
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    Take a look at this Article 78 case. Quarterman v. Kelly cknight.pw/35wPw1W
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    It's a federal security job.
    Can you move out of NYC? Is the job only in NYC? If a federal security job could they post you somewhere else? NYC is a cesspool and probably the most corrupt and poorly run city in the US (yes, worse than Chicago or DC). You will end up spending a fortune fighting this. Maybe you will prevail but is it worth the dollars and aggravation? If it is a federal job perhaps they have other opportunities in the region. The rest of NY is more reasonable with respect to permits and surrounding states like PA and CT are even more reasonable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    It's a federal security job.
    Go get your job and fight them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolbreez67 View Post
    In my opinion, as long as you're financially able to do so and it won't bankrupt you, keep fighting and maybe consult with your lawyer to see if filing a lawsuit against the city for arbitrarily denying you your 2nd amendment right would be something to consider. I just think the powers that be just use any past legal issue to justify their decisions to keep citizens unarmed. There counting on you to just give up.
    I learned that the decision issued relies on old caselaw. I am not posting the decision but it says handgun ownership is NOT a right but a privilege. I am also hearing that the printing fees could make this cost maybe $12,000 or more. They absolutely count on people not being able to afford to fight them in court. They have hundreds of lawyers in the NYC Law Department while the people fighting them cannot usually afford law firms - some that charge like $500 an hour.

    Something else I learned during this article 78 is that my premise permit in 2016 was approved by the investigating officer and supervisor. The higher ups denied it and forced me to appeal to get my premise permit.
    Last edited by RTNYC; 10-14-2019 at 06:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve89 View Post
    Can you move out of NYC? Is the job only in NYC? If a federal security job could they post you somewhere else? NYC is a cesspool and probably the most corrupt and poorly run city in the US (yes, worse than Chicago or DC). You will end up spending a fortune fighting this. Maybe you will prevail but is it worth the dollars and aggravation? If it is a federal job perhaps they have other opportunities in the region. The rest of NY is more reasonable with respect to permits and surrounding states like PA and CT are even more reasonable.
    No, I cannot move. We did a gut renovation of our NYC place and never want to move. I love NYC just don't love their gun laws. Also, my spouse works in NYC.
    Last edited by RTNYC; 10-14-2019 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911operator View Post
    Do yourself a favor, you or your attorney need to get some media attention. There should be NO,issue, as you already have a NYC premises permit. You’ve been vetted, if the job is legit, you should have the permit. KEEP FIGHTING,
    Yes, I feel like I have to appeal at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CavalierKnight View Post
    Take a look at this Article 78 case. Quarterman v. Kelly cknight.pw/35wPw1W
    This is spot on. This case and another were suggested as additions to the brief but were not used. I am not sure why not.


    In Curts v. Randall, 110 A.D.3d 1452 (2013) the court found that the determination to revoke a pistol permit was arbitrary and capricious. There, the petitioner had been charged with menacing but had also been acquitted. The permanent revocation after Petitioner's acquittal of criminal charges was found to be arbitrary and capricious because the record was devoid of any evidence to support the decision. In Quarterman v. Kelly, 2003 WL 26556585 (N.Y. Sup. 2003) the Court reversed the determination of the License Division and directed the License Division to issue a carry guard permit to the Petitioner. There, the Court noted that "the License Division has failed to take into account the underlying circumstance, remoteness in time and Petitioner's societal behavior" after Petitioner's conviction of minor offenses. There, the petitioner disclosed he had been arrested for DWI and certain other misdemeanors and violations. The court took this into consideration and declared the "License Divisions' decision still must be rational, and the reasons articulated must be appropriate considering Petitioner's overall history." See also Doe v. Safir, 184 Misc.2d 198 (2000) ("Although a special patrolman case, also takes notice that the police department may evaluate petitioner's entire record, including his background.")
    Last edited by RTNYC; 10-14-2019 at 06:39 PM.
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    Good decision. We need people like you to fight this crap. Post a go fund me page and people will donate. You might not get $12,000 but likely get a few grand in donations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltwater60 View Post
    Good decision. We need people like you to fight this crap. Post a go fund me page and people will donate. You might not get $12,000 but likely get a few grand in donations.
    That is a good idea. I will raise it with my family. We are pretty private so I'm not sure how it will be received.
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    But the FACT is...They gave you the Premises Permit! Stopping you from getting a carry, especially when you’ve been vetted for an armed, contract Federal security officer job, is, IMO discriminatory, arbitrary and capricious on their part.

    Had you not already had a permit, I’d say you had a poor chance in hell getting the carry. Stick with it, I believe you will prevail.
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    Default NYC a sanctuary city

    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    I have my NYC premise permit and applied for my carry permit in 2017 and have been fighting with NYPD since they denied it in 2018, weeks before I was to start a new job that requires a carry permit. Homeland Security cleared me and I was assigned a gun for the job.
    I appealed the carry permit denial administratively, was denied and filed the article 78 and was denied, again.

    They are citing a 20 yr old dismissed case where a dog attacked me. It was dismissed at the first court appearacne since the dog's owner admitted he did nothing to control his huge dog after I told him multiple times to stop yelling and control his dog. They are also citing a decade old driver's license suspension (for failure to pay fines in 30 days not DUIs or anything like that) although I have a current CDL with hazmat endorsement to carry explosives nationwide. The frustrating part is once we got discovery, I saw that the investigating officer approved my carry permit, 4 times. She told me she was recommending approval but when I got the denial, I presumed she hadn't told me the truth. I had to file carry permit applications for two different jobs and two different applications each so my carry permit was approved 4 times. The supervisor approved my carry permit as well, all 4 times - so 8 approvals total. It was denied by higher ups.

    I've already spent $6,000 in legal fees and application fees from the begining of this to get my premise permit and now fighting for my carry permit. An appeal to from the NY Supreme Court article 78 decsion will be like $7,500 - $12,000.

    I'm trying to decide if I should keep fighting this.

    I'm frustrated because my would be coworkers with carry permits are making $100,000+ with excellent benefits (lots of overtime) and I should have started the job working with them well over a year ago.
    Your problem is just one of a multitude of reasons that we are getting out of NYC after 35 years. It is a quasi Socialist city and will continue to get worse.

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    I will leave nys the day I retire. Sadly I have Just slightly less than 24 years to go. I’ll take my state pension and spend it elsewhere.
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    Some small towns in NY should start making their own gun regulations allowing much less restrictive laws than the state. Naturally, the state won't like that and might decide to say that only the state can make gun regulations, not local communities. Several states are already like that and the advantage is when a local city wants to make stricter gun laws, they are not permitted to. Florida is like that. Some more liberal areas would like to strengthen their laws, but they can't. Now if NY did that, then NYC would have to abide by the states regulations, and I don't believe they could enforce regulations statewide, as NYC now has. Ironically, I just read an article where a case like this was taken to court and the court ruled that the city could not make it's own laws. It's a Breitbart article that was linked through another site, but it's legit. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...e-gun-storage/

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwingjr View Post
    Some small towns in NY should start making their own gun regulations allowing much less restrictive laws than the state. Naturally, the state won't like that and might decide to say that only the state can make gun regulations, not local communities. Several states are already like that and the advantage is when a local city wants to make stricter gun laws, they are not permitted to. Florida is like that. Some more liberal areas would like to strengthen their laws, but they can't. Now if NY did that, then NYC would have to abide by the states regulations, and I don't believe they could enforce regulations statewide, as NYC now has. Ironically, I just read an article where a case like this was taken to court and the court ruled that the city could not make it's own laws. It's a Breitbart article that was linked through another site, but it's legit. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...e-gun-storage/
    Too bad NYS is one of I think 13 states that allows municipalities to make stricter gun laws than the state laws so this won’t happen.
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    The notice of appeal has been filed.
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  23. #21
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    Good move. You might just be any gun owner in NYC’s hero.
    RTNYC likes this.

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    Just an update that my appeal was filed with NY Supreme Court, Appellate Division. $14,043.92 in legal fees and expenses so far which does not include carry permit application fees since those were paid by the job. Everyone that I tell about this story is in shock that it takes this much effort and expense to get a carry permit in NYC.
    Last edited by RTNYC; 05-21-2020 at 03:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    The notice of appeal has been filed.
    Good Luck to you, please keep us updated.
    RTNYC likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    I have my NYC premise permit and applied for my carry permit in 2017 and have been fighting with NYPD since they denied it in 2018, weeks before I was to start a new job that requires a carry permit. Homeland Security cleared me and I was assigned a gun for the job.
    I appealed the carry permit denial administratively, was denied and filed the article 78 and was denied, again.

    They are citing a 20 yr old dismissed case where a dog attacked me. It was dismissed at the first court appearacne since the dog's owner admitted he did nothing to control his huge dog after I told him multiple times to stop yelling and control his dog. They are also citing a decade old driver's license suspension (for failure to pay fines in 30 days not DUIs or anything like that) although I have a current CDL with hazmat endorsement to carry explosives nationwide. The frustrating part is once we got discovery, I saw that the investigating officer approved my carry permit, 4 times. She told me she was recommending approval but when I got the denial, I presumed she hadn't told me the truth. I had to file carry permit applications for two different jobs and two different applications each so my carry permit was approved 4 times. The supervisor approved my carry permit as well, all 4 times - so 8 approvals total. It was denied by higher ups.

    I've already spent $6,000 in legal fees and application fees from the begining of this to get my premise permit and now fighting for my carry permit. An appeal to from the NY Supreme Court article 78 decsion will be like $7,500 - $12,000.

    I'm trying to decide if I should keep fighting this.

    I'm frustrated because my would be coworkers with carry permits are making $100,000+ with excellent benefits (lots of overtime) and I should have started the job working with them well over a year ago.
    How sad and petty of them to do this to you , if I had the money I'd give it you so you could fight them till you won

    feel really bad for you and good luck in the future , I hope you fight it .
    RTNYC likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTNYC View Post
    Just an update that my appeal was filed with NY Supreme Court, Appellate Division. $14,043.92 in legal fees and expenses so far which does not include carry permit application fees since those were paid by the job. Everyone that I tell about this story is in shock that it takes this much effort and expense to get a carry permit in NYC.
    I see NYPD firearms licensing unit tightened up their issuing guidelines considerably since the "pay for play" scandal broke a few years back when a convicted felon was issued a restricted carry pistol license. As with applicants interested in applying for NYPD police officer positions--the investigation unit will disqualify an applicant with the least littlest thing wrong in his/her background. Article 78 appeals in State Supreme Court rarely succeed as the court prefers NOT to substitute its judgement for the police agency whose determination is based upon fitness according to their defined guidelines. I hope your attorney told you this before taking your money.

    Yes, I know it's unfair as you might be granted a carry pistol license by an upstate judge. But there is NO consistency in the issuance of pistol licenses, in the State of New York, as each and every upstate licensing officer [typically a county level or state supreme court justice] has his/her own set of criteria.

    Unfortunately, New York is NOT a 'free' state when it comes to pistol licensing but a "may issue" one subject to many inconsistencies.

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