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  1. #51
    Silver Vendor Bullet Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donaldj View Post
    I have a few handguns so already covered on that front. Would like to add a long-gun for home defense. Considering the two below.

    - Remington Model 870 Express Tactical Magpul Shotgun (12 or 20 guage)

    - Ruger Mini 30

    I really like the Rock River Armory LAR47 and the Colt LE 6920 Carbine but unfortunately not able to get shipped to NY thanks to our great Governor Cummo.

    Appreciate any feedback here on the 870 or mini-30 or any other solid suggestions for a good home defense long-gun. Thx DJ
    get a shotgun.

    i maybe able to get you a colt 6920.......pm or call me

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECU Pirates View Post
    Are you saying you shot a .44 mag (short barrel) inside without hearing protection and your ears did not even ring?
    Yes I know. It's surprising but true. I guess it has to do with the size of the room, how much stuff is there to absorb some of the sound, the materials everything is made of etc etc. I would imagine shooting it inside of a small closet would be much different XD
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun_slinger_boy View Post
    Yes I know. It's surprising but true. I guess it has to do with the size of the room, how much stuff is there to absorb some of the sound, the materials everything is made of etc etc. I would imagine shooting it inside of a small closet would be much different XD
    Ive been at a covered outdoor range where i was carrying a couple bags in from the car, they were doing a target change and I got a call on my way back in.
    When i went back in I mistakenly forgot to put my hearing protection on,

    Guy in the lane next (i was about 5 feet behind him) fired off a .357 with a 4 inch barrel. I was honestly scared for a couple mins that my left ear drum was damaged. I had to go outside as I instantly felt nauseous as well.

    I now keep my ear protection on the dash and put it on when getting out of the car. Also now keep my electronic muffs in my nightstand.

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  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigSweet View Post
    Guy in the lane next (i was about 5 feet behind him) fired off a .357 with a 4 inch barrel. I was honestly scared for a couple mins that my left ear drum was damaged. I had to go outside as I instantly felt nauseous as well.
    That's particularly strange considering you were behind him. Being to the sides of the muzzle is usually where it's loudest. It's highly likely it's the absolute loudest when you are in front of it. I'm hoping to never have to test that theory though. For various reasons I've shot/heard quite a few firearms with no hearing protection (no never in self defense). I find that the high pitched rounds tend to be the most irritating like 22 lr, 9mm, 762x25, 357, 223 etc. The slow low pressure rounds like 44, 45, 12g etc seem to be "less bad". And again the surroundings make a huge difference. Outside is way different that inside and the positive space indoors makes even more of a difference. Outside in very cold dense weather makes for very interesting acoustics. Bottom line don't shoot without hearing protection if possible!
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  6. #55
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    I haven't tried them but there are some $12 ear plugs on amazon well reviewed that claim to cut about 20 or more decibels yet not affect regular hearing. Basically like electronic ear muffs without the electronic part. I agree being indoors with a shotgun going off would be horrendous. I refuse to be around any loud noises without plugs, though realistically in an HD situation it wouldn't be high on the priority list even though being near a shotgun indoors even once could cause permanent ear damage. At the range with the covered housing I have taken to using plugs AND electronic muffs to really keep noise levels as low as possible. Also die hard religious about ear plugs when using any power tools now, and I generally use them even with the lawn mower. Outside of traumatic noises cumulative damage from loud sounds adds up over time. I already have occasional ringing in one ear (not even 40 yet) and don't want to be deaf in a few decades. Currently my hearing is overall excellent though and I plan on keeping it that way.

  7. #56
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    Having a hearing protection plan is a very good idea. Adding to the hearing loss is tinnitus which is not gradual. Tinnitus is instant and permanent. I can tell you loud tinnitus where you hear it above all other sound can be your own private hell for awhile until you get use to it.
    guns are evil, particularly the black ones.

  8. #57
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    Lets just say that if you break into my house, theyll need a shop vac to remove all of you from the scene.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun_slinger_boy View Post
    That's particularly strange considering you were behind him. Being to the sides of the muzzle is usually where it's loudest. It's highly likely it's the absolute loudest when you are in front of it. I'm hoping to never have to test that theory though. For various reasons I've shot/heard quite a few firearms with no hearing protection (no never in self defense). I find that the high pitched rounds tend to be the most irritating like 22 lr, 9mm, 762x25, 357, 223 etc. The slow low pressure rounds like 44, 45, 12g etc seem to be "less bad". And again the surroundings make a huge difference. Outside is way different that inside and the positive space indoors makes even more of a difference. Outside in very cold dense weather makes for very interesting acoustics. Bottom line don't shoot without hearing protection if possible!
    I think it had to do with the downward slanted roof the muzzle was behind.
    Same reason I dont like sitting next to guys at the rifle range shooting ar's with a muzzle break, I feel the sideways blast is particular strong

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecelt View Post
    I actually prefer handguns for hd (in my current home with tighter hallways). If i had a larger house id consider a carbine, and ideally 556 (and no close neighbors).
    Lets Split the Difference...
    The Smith&Wesson Governor 6 shot 410 revolver!
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  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalt View Post
    Lets just say that if you break into my house, theyll need a shop vac to remove all of you from the scene.
    A stick, a spoon and a sponge might help.
    "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation." George Washington?

  12. #61
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    I'm all about the chinese 870 clone i picked up at Dick's for $140 new. Well made, but cheap enough that i wouldn't cry TOO long when it got confiscated.

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozmiander View Post
    I'm all about the chinese 870 clone i picked up at Dick's for $140 new. Well made, but cheap enough that i wouldn't cry TOO long when it got confiscated.
    Why would it get confiscated, what brand is it?

  14. #63
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    Both at hand, .40 with hollows and 12 ga with 00 buck.

  15. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozmiander View Post
    I'm all about the chinese 870 clone i picked up at Dick's for $140 new. Well made, but cheap enough that i wouldn't cry TOO long when it got confiscated.
    H&R Pardners? Me too!

    I wasn't thrilled about a Chineese copy of a Rem....until I saw how bad Rem is doing with QC lately. My Pardner is my trap gun!
    Proud NRA ​LIFETIME Non-​Member. Don't just support PART of the constitution. Be Skeptical.

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  16. #65
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    Currently have a 12 Gauge Mossberg 500 ATP model I picked up at a pawn shop back in the 90s that I finally upgraded with a new pistol grip stock and a new black synthetic forearm (was all wood before). Also added a flashlight. I have Howard Leight Impact Sport Electronic Earmuffs nearby as I can't imagine shooting this thing inside without going deaf. I have 00 buck readily available but am sticking with #4 buck as I really don't want to overpenetrate walls. Can anyone recommend a good 9mm carbine that is NY legal? Might be interested in getting one eventually.
    Last edited by They Live; 02-13-2016 at 11:32 AM. Reason: font size

  17. #66
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    You can play the AR game and go with the Thordsen stock like so to retain the functional ability for magazine changes.

    02_AXQDI12_A00061.jpg

    Or you can go the regular route and get this with no modifications out the box to make legal.

    Legacy_Sports_Citadel_M1-9mm_Wood.jpg

    Legacy Sports - M-1 9mm Carbine

    There aren't too many choices due to everything being made with pistol grips.
    Last edited by willjr75; 02-13-2016 at 01:07 PM.
    We have all moved on to another American owned NY gun forum that doesn't censor you or contribute revenue to anti gun causes. Check my avatar and signature for the location.

  18. #67
    Private They Live's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willjr75 View Post
    Or you can go the regular route and get this with no modifications out the box to make legal.

    Legacy_Sports_Citadel_M1-9mm_Wood.jpg

    Legacy Sports - M-1 9mm Carbine

    There aren't too many choices due to everything being made with pistol grips.
    Actually the Citadel might be the ticket for me. I see them for under $500 online. Thanks

  19. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by They Live View Post
    Actually the Citadel might be the ticket for me. I see them for under $500 online. Thanks
    I was looking at the specs. The Citadel is actually 1 full pound lighter than the 9mm AR I have. That's a plus.
    We have all moved on to another American owned NY gun forum that doesn't censor you or contribute revenue to anti gun causes. Check my avatar and signature for the location.

  20. #69
    Private spiros's Avatar
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    go with a benelli m2 you cant beat benelli 21 inch barrel for home defense

  21. #70
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    Being a gun guy, my answer is to buy a rifle and a shotgun. Different tools for different jobs. OP said he had multiple handguns, now it’s time to expand. At least 1 of each for rifle and shotgun. Pistol caliber carbines are light weight, fast handeling and cheap to practice with. Shotguns are very useful tools and shells are always available even during the biggest scare. Focus on what’s comfortable for you, not what others tell you you need. There is no correct answer for everyone. As others have said, high power options will be hell on your ears indoors.

  22. #71
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    A note on rifles and over-penetration in home defense.

    "Statements are made that the shotgun or pistol should be used because of the over-penetration problem with 5.56 carbine ammunition. This could not be further from the truth. If you conduct a little research you will find that numerous law enforcement departments, to include the FBI, have proven this to be false in most cases. The fact of the matter is that many of these bullets will penetrate numerous walls, but standard 5.56 loadings are the least of your worries when compared to pistol and shotgun fodder, which continue to take top honors in the category of over-penetration." US Army Sergeant Major Lamb (former Delta/CAG)
    https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...xperts-opinion

    "Common pistol rounds easily penetrated all 4 walls spaced out at room distances. This is a critical issue. Think about the inside of your house and imagine if you shot through 4 walls. Could you hit a loved one? Know your target and what is behind it....The 5.56 rounds deviated greatly from the original flight path once they started tumbling. This occurred after the second wall." Old_Painless (certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Firearms Defense, and Home Firearms Safety Instructor)
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-...sulated-walls/


    "Proponents of the pistol for home defense like to think that because it’s 'just' a pistol round, overpenetration really won’t be an issue. Such is not the case. Drywall sheets and hollow-core doors (which are what you’ll find in the majority of homes and apartments in this country) offer almost no resistance to bullets....For years many people just assumed they knew what would happen to a rifle bullet fired indoors—it would go through every wall available and then exit the building. While armor-piercing and FMJ ammunition is specifically designed to do this, extensive testing has shown that light, extremely fast-moving .223 projectiles (including FMJs) often fragment when they hit a barrier as soft as thin plywood." James Tarr (former police officer; contributing editor for Guns and Ammo)
    http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/long...fense-caliber/

    "The .223/5.56 is moving at around 3,000 feet per second, and while it isn’t magic bullet, it’s a far cry better than any pistol round. Another advantage of the .223/5.56 is its limited penetration. The shape and velocity of the round cause it to immediately expend or dissipate its energy once it strikes something." Tiger McKee (adjunct instructor at Thunder Ranch)
    https://gundigest.com/reviews/ar-15-...e-defense-guns

    "The pistol rounds were seemingly unaffected by the drywall and/or wood barriers. There was no observable deviation or fragmentation of the 9mm projectiles. You’d be safe counting on a pistol round to keep going, and going, and going. After all, premium pistol ammunition is designed to expand, and lose energy, when striking liquid-based targets—not walls. The full metal jacket .223 rounds tended to tumble rather than break apart when they encountered barriers." Tom McHale (contributor at AmmoLand and OutdoorHub)
    http://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/20...ration-issues/


    "FBI and Independent Testing Has Consistently Shown .223/5.56 NATO Fired From AR-15’s Do Not Over Penetrate More Than Pistol/Shotgun." Caleb Lee (NRA Certified Basic Pistol & Personal Protection Inside The Home Instructor)
    http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07...ation-testing/

    "Since all of the 5.56 mm/.223 bullets fired through the interior wall had significantly less penetration than 9 mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles which were fired through an interior wall, stray 5.56 mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures. As such, 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations and crowded urban environments than service caliber handguns or 12 ga. weapons." Dr. Gary Williams (ballistics expert)
    http://www.recoilweb.com/ar-vs-shotg...#ixzz4zCOCPykZ
    "The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards."Lt Gen Sir William Butler, GCB

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