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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by willjr75 View Post
    ...

    ...f it were the case, the City of Buffalo, Rochester, or any city with so called "Home Rule" can issue their own Hunting Authorization Card allowing their residents to carry in NYC while Hunting or Fishing against the State Penal Law.

    ....
    This is patently false. None of these cities can pass any law with regards to NYC. NYC has its own special place in the PL. It says it right there in the Penal Law. The penal law says only the NYC can dictate who carries there, as permission is needed from the Commissioner of Police. There are exclusions carved out in state law and NY admin code on who can carry, posses and/or transport guns thru NYC.

    Those cities you mention, if they can issue pistol licenses, they can also place restrictions on them (per PL or administrative), and if they provide for a hunting endorsement, the holder of that endorsed license is granted whatever rights are vested on anyone else with that endorsement, statewide - except of course in NYC.


    Not sure why this is so cumbersome for you to get.

    Under what authority does the NYPD give these Premise Permit Holders who only have permission to possess on the premises listed on their license the legal authority to carry while hunting outside of their borders?
    The penal law allows for "The commisioner of police of NYC..." to grant hunting endorsements. They are the same government entity issuing NYC permits. The commissioner could give any compliant resident a full carry permit, and that person could carry throughout the state, and if that person has a 2nd residence in White Plains or Syracuse, that local municipality would be hard pressed to do anything about it.

    In reality the NYPD does not give out full carry permits carte blanche, or they don't make this public knowledge. If they give a NYC resident a premise permit and then decide to upgrade their permit to full carry, the state is not going to interfere.

    I think I am done on this topic with you. I've exhausted my point 3 ways from Sunday.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCG LLC View Post
    This is patently false. None of these cities can pass any law with regards to NYC. NYC has its own special place in the PL. It says it right there in the Penal Law. The penal law says only the NYC can dictate who carries there, as permission is needed from the Commissioner of Police. There are exclusions carved out in state law and NY admin code on who can carry, posses and/or transport guns thru NYC.

    Those cities you mention, if they can issue pistol licenses, they can also place restrictions on them (per PL or administrative), and if they provide for a hunting endorsement, the holder of that endorsed license is granted whatever rights are vested on anyone else with that endorsement, statewide - except of course in NYC.


    Not sure why this is so cumbersome for you to get.



    The penal law allows for "The commisioner of police of NYC..." to grant hunting endorsements. They are the same government entity issuing NYC permits. The commissioner could give any compliant resident a full carry permit, and that person could carry throughout the state, and if that person has a 2nd residence in White Plains or Syracuse, that local municipality would be hard pressed to do anything about it.

    In reality the NYPD does not give out full carry permits carte blanche, or they don't make this public knowledge. If they give a NYC resident a premise permit and then decide to upgrade their permit to full carry, the state is not going to interfere.

    I think I am done on this topic with you. I've exhausted my point 3 ways from Sunday.
    No you haven't. You have failed to show where in the Penal Law does it say you can carry on a Premise Permit. You keep saying that they allow this. I get that. But where does it say that? Show me the text. A city cannot make a law less restrictive than state law. Those were your words which I agree with. Since nowhere does it say you can add a hunting endorsement for carry on a Premise Permit in the State Penal Law, then they are being less restrictive by saying so in their Admin Code.

    I'm sorry. I cannot just take it because you say it's in there. I have going through that Penal law 400 about 10 times and even admitted that I was wrong when I eventually found Premise Permits were in there after previously thinking they weren't. If it's in there, I will stand corrected and will admit it.
    Last edited by willjr75; 03-11-2016 at 10:17 PM.
    We have all moved on to another American owned NY gun forum that doesn't censor you or contribute revenue to anti gun causes. Check my avatar and signature for the location.

  3. #103
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    court cases where the city making the premise permit less restrictive was challenged says it can be done . this was challenged many times over since the city replaced the target permit with the premise permit ,.

    the judges all rules the same way . a locality is free to amend the permits as they see fit to best fit their locality .

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  5. #104
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    This need to be a separate thread.
    "Powder and artillery are the most efficacious, sure, and infallibly conciliatory measures we can adopt."
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  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
    court cases where the city making the premise permit less restrictive was challenged says it can be done . this was challenged many times over since the city replaced the target permit with the premise permit ,.

    the judges all rules the same way . a locality is free to amend the permits as they see fit to best fit their locality .
    Did you mean MORE restrictive? Either way, you are correct, my recollection of one recent case was where the locality made permits more restrictive.


    It is settled case law, and despite what we know about judges, there is enough room in the PL for them to feel comfortable in making those rulings. Most or all are confident the higher courts are not going to reverse them.

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by willjr75 View Post
    No you haven't. You have failed to show where in the Penal Law does it say you can carry on a Premise Permit. You keep saying that they allow this. I get that. But where does it say that? Show me the text. A city cannot make a law less restrictive than state law. Those were your words which I agree with. Since nowhere does it say you can add a hunting endorsement for carry on a Premise Permit in the State Penal Law, then they are being less restrictive by saying so in their Admin Code.

    I'm sorry. I cannot just take it because you say it's in there. I have going through that Penal law 400 about 10 times and even admitted that I was wrong when I eventually found Premise Permits were in there after previously thinking they weren't. If it's in there, I will stand corrected and will admit it.
    First, I never said anyone can carry on a premise permit. I have consistently said one who is issued a NY premise permit, can use their handgun consistent with endorsements applied to that permit. For example - hunting, target shooting, etc.

    You don't have to take my word for anything sir. I am glad you were able to finally see the statute for yourself - where it has always been, in plain english that there are different types of permits.

    If a licensing agent gives you a PREMISE permit, and adds a "target" or "hunting" endorsement on it, you can conduct those specific activities with your gun. As a matter of known fact, this is what Westchester County does. They give you a premise permit with those endorsements. The "Sportsman" endorsement opens the door a little wider to allow "hiking" and all other types of outdoorsy stuff. It is why people like me are always reminding people with "target" permits to be careful. People like you for years have said on here that EVERY NY permit was a carry permit, and you were very wrong, and in fact grossly irresponsible for making such wild claims. (insert smiley here, cuz I aint mad at ya!)

    You are so locked into what PL400 says, you forget there are other laws that describe how .gov functions. The state has granted powers to local municipalities - even more so to NYC to modify its pistol licensing as that entity sees fit.
    Last edited by FCG LLC; 03-12-2016 at 07:35 AM.

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCG LLC View Post
    First, I never said anyone can carry on a premise permit. I have consistently said one who is issued a NY premise permit, can use their handgun consistent with endorsements applied to that permit. For example - hunting, target shooting, etc.

    You don't have to take my word for anything sir. I am glad you were able to finally see the statute for yourself - where it has always been, in plain english that there are different types of permits.

    If a licensing agent gives you a PREMISE permit, and adds a "target" or "hunting" endorsement on it, you can conduct those specific activities with your gun. As a matter of known fact, this is what Westchester County does. They give you a premise permit with those endorsements. The "Sportsman" endorsement opens the door a little wider to allow "hiking" and all other types of outdoorsy stuff. It is why people like me are always reminding people with "target" permits to be careful. People like you for years have said on here that EVERY NY permit was a carry permit, and you were very wrong, and in fact grossly irresponsible for making such wild claims. (insert smiley here, cuz I aint mad at ya!)

    You are so locked into what PL400 says, you forget there are other laws that describe how .gov functions. The state has granted powers to local municipalities - even more so to NYC to modify its pistol licensing as that entity sees fit.
    No. You are very wrong on this sir. Westchester does not issue Premise Permits. There in lies your confussion. A Westchester permit is the same as any carry permit. They both say license to carry. The difference is under restrictions, Westchester stamps Hunting and Target while others say none. Anyway, Airborneguy will like his thread back. Let's oblige.
    Last edited by willjr75; 03-12-2016 at 10:01 AM.
    We have all moved on to another American owned NY gun forum that doesn't censor you or contribute revenue to anti gun causes. Check my avatar and signature for the location.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCG LLC View Post
    Did you mean MORE restrictive? Either way, you are correct, my recollection of one recent case was where the locality made permits more restrictive.


    It is settled case law, and despite what we know about judges, there is enough room in the PL for them to feel comfortable in making those rulings. Most or all are confident the higher courts are not going to reverse them.
    nyc made the premise permit less restrictive because you can go hunting or to a range . that is not allowed in state law . courts have said over and over this is fine and so far every judge and ruling states the plantiff has failed to show that being off premise hunting has been a problem for them since no one has been challenged .

    there is not one case so far where someone authorized to hunt by the commissioner with a premise permit has had issues so the courts have been dismissing it as being an issue

  10. #109
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    I'm a member at Westside in Manhattan. I've never had to wait to shoot. Great range. And they're going to allow Magnums soon...

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
    it is a crime not an administrave violation to be off premise with a nyc residence permit . only exception is hunting or nypd approved range .
    the nysrpa lost their challenge .
    Good thing SCOTUS will finally take that appeal and hopefully reverse the ridicolous decision by the corrupt liberal 2nd circuit.

  12. #111
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    Hudson Valley Shooting Sports in Carmel, Putnam County. At the Paladin Center. . . doesn't seem to have a yearly fee. . .$30/hour range fee.

    https://www.hvshootingsports.com/

  13. #112
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    Little further North but it's a nice place. It's a private club that opens a few days and weekends to the public.

    Pistol Range

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    Any clubs on LI have openings?
    love to get to 200 yds, only place I know of is Brookhaven I believe
    like to find a local club as well

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